Human Pinata, or How to Be a "Man."

[Bella_Vixen]

Controversial post included. I whited it out, so highlight it to read.


I don't normally condone violence, but I whole heartedly agree that BB needs the very worst done to him...dragged out as long as possible.

I'll supply the salt to rub into any wounds that might be caused.

[lordlundar]

This may be my last post on this site, for what I am about to say will seem cold, heartless, and possibly put the other people on this site against me. Please understand this is not my intent, and if it does produce that very reaction, then delete this post and I will trouble the site no longer.

She did kill herself. Even if it is ruled a homicide, she did kill herself. She did that when she betrayed everything that was done for her and went back to him.

At no point do I think BB is innocent in this matter. He abused her and almost killed her before. He said sweet things or did something else to convince her to go back to him, where this abuse continued or even escalated. These are not the actions of an innocent man, these are the actions of a coward and a manipulator. Do not feel sympathy for him, but also do not seek his death, for he will get what's coming to him. If not the law, then his final judgment will ensure it.

However, she was not a young child who does not know any better, she was a grown woman who made her own choices. She had the aid of those around her and the support from people around the world. She chose to leave that to go back, and in doing so, chose to kill herself. Even if she had survived in body, you would never have seen her the same way again, as when she made that choice, she killed her spirit.

Jester, weep not for fear that you could have done something more. You did more than anyone, putting your own life on the line to help her, and even being there for her after she made the choice to go back. If you must cry, the do so for the loss of a good person, and relax in the thought that she will find peace being finally away from the turmoil that the mortal life brought.

[Teysa]

*hugs* I am truly sorry this ended this way. As others have said,though, Tiny Dancer is now at peace where no one can hurt her again.

As far as you are concerned, don't be ashamed of feeling emotional over all this. It shows that you're a decent person.

[tropicsgoddess]

Tiny Dancer is dead.

The cops are apparently investigating BB for causing TD's death.

I'm just shocked. I was hoping that she would finally get the gumption to get the hell away from BB's sorry ass. RIP Tiny Dancer. *Sorry I'm ringing in late, here* Jester, TD you are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn.

That's all I can say. It was heartbreaking to return to this thread and find TD had died.

I can't always find the right words. She will be in my thoughts. And if it does turn out BB was responsible for her death, I hope they throw every book they possibly can at him.

[justZu]

Jester, when I saw the thread had new posts I hoped to hear that TD had finally moved away for good. Instead I am so sorry to read this. My thoughts and prayers are with you and her family now.
Even though I believe that bastard will be judged and punished by God when he dies, I still hope he is sent away for the rest of his life and each day is made to suffer horrible agony in prison.


This is so terrible. I have been sitting here for the longest time just staring at the screen. Again, I'm so sorry for your loss.

[MMATM]

I don't know what to say. I'm sorry Jester.

I hope BB gets what's coming to him, one way or another. I'm up on Skype, AIM, and Messenger usually 'til pretty late. PM and I'll get you the details if you want them.

[Teysa]

*hugs* I am truly sorry this ended this way. As others have said,though, Tiny Dancer is now at peace where no one can hurt her again.

As far as you are concerned, don't be ashamed of feeling emotional over all this. It shows that you're a decent person.

[Rahmota]

Agreed Jester. Never be ashamed to be sad over a situation like this. All it shows is that you have not lost touch with the forces of goodness.

As for BB he will be punished one way or another someday. His kind always do. It may not be someone with a badge but it will come to him.

Lundar said it well though. She was an adult and she choose her path. It is sad and unfortunate that it led to this ending. That the ones who had tried to help could not do more but each must live their life to their best. You could not live her life for her. But to remember her the way she was and honor that memory is all that can be done now. You tried to help. You tried to do what you could and she made her decisions. It is not your fault. It does not lessen the pain. It does not stop the hurt. Only time can bring that. Take care of your neice. Do what you can to stay safe yourself. And peace to you.

[Seshat]

My sympathy to TD and all her friends and family.

And to all who read this, who recognise themselves in either role in this drama: ensure TD didn't die for nothing. Take her death as a warning, and seek help. Now. Today.

Locate your local Lifeline counselling service, or do a google search on 'abuse counselling', and call. Most of these places have 24-hour call centres for people in need.

Ask the person on the other end of the phone to help you find the free services in your area - they'll either have the information themselves, or they'll know who to pass you on to. Keep following the chain until you get to the people who can help you. Then get that help.

If you recognise yourself at all in this story, make TD's death mean something in your life.

That will be the best gift you can give TD's friends and family.

[marasbaras]

Sadly, this outcome is not surprising. Tragic.

Do what Seeshat says ... if you are in this position or know someone, do something. And, don't look back. Don't listen to "I'm sorry, I'll never do it again". ONCE IS TOO MANY TIMES ALREADY.

[jb17kx]

Like most others I came to this thread expecting - hoping for good news. Tiny Dancer was on the up and BB had a noose pulling ever-tighter around his neck.

It still is.

It goes unsaid, Jester, that you and TD's family and friends have the support of every single one of us.

We have followed, purely out of interest and compassion, the affairs of a woman we've never met and a man I sincerely hope we never meet. The only commonality was through Jester - a man most of us know only through the proxy of the Internet.

Tiny Dancer's death was a tragedy of the highest order, one that saddens me and one that must surely have devastated all who were personally involved.

TD's choices aside, you Jester are to be commended for your efforts in attempting to rerailing her life. You did all you could do - but in the end it wasn't enough, and for that you mustn't blame yourself.

I feel obligated, though, to point out that posting threats of violence against BB is but a hair's breadth from condoning the very violence we despise BB for. Violence against any person, regardless of reason, is to be abhorred and I believe that we dishonour TD's memory as a sweet and gentle person by planning the drawn-out death of BB - as much as he may deserve it.

Big Boy has acquired a debt he can never repay, one that cannot be dodged like a bill for pay-per-view pornography. One day he will have that debt collected and he will regret for his every waking moment his actions in the past. This justice could come from the courts, it could come when it is time for him to move on - but it will come and it will be inescapable and deserved beyond all reprieve.

We should all take solace in the knowledge that TD is in a better place, and we should all learn from these sad happenings. Act when you can - the time may never come again, and regretting inaction is the one thing that is worse than regretting action.

My deepest sympathy to Jester, TD's family, and all others involved.

[Jester]

If they dont' prosecute this as a homicide, I am never going to stop throwing up.

And not only that, but they're watching TV, she walks out of the room and is gone for, what, however long it takes her to do the deed before he gets worried and comes looking for her?

Well, they may not have the evidence to prosecute this as a homicide. To their credit, they seem to be treating this VERY seriously, and are looking at every angle. They know what BB is, and he is the kind of person they despise and want to put away. Hopefully the evidence will allow them to do so.

As for your second point, according to what I have heard, BB said she was gone for 15 minutes before he wondered what was going on and went and found her. And yes, most people think that that is a pile of horseshit.

This may be my last post on this site, for what I am about to say will seem cold, heartless, and possibly put the other people on this site against me.

She did kill herself. Even if it is ruled a homicide, she did kill herself. She did that when she betrayed everything that was done for her and went back to him.

It is not cold or heartless. It is true. When she went back to him, she signed her own death certificate. Everyone knows it.

That, of course, does not absolve him of guilt. He is still responsible for her death. Even though she made a horrible choice that pretty much ended her life, that doesn't change the fact that, directly or indirectly, he killed her. Period, end of story.

As for BB he will be punished one way or another someday. His kind always do. It may not be someone with a badge but it will come to him.

Sadly, you are wrong. His kind ISN'T always punished. All too often, they get away with this kind of stuff. I'd like to believe that that was not true, but if you pay attention to what happens in life, you'll see that it isn't the way things work. Sad and tragic? Sure. Welcome to real life. Hopefully, though, in this case it won't be the case, and he will be punished. One way or another.

Take care of your neice.

I am actually using this as an important lesson for all my nieces to learn from. My eldest niece actually knew and worked with TD, so it is a very harsh lesson for her. I do hope they learn from it. I really do. Because while I did everything I think I could have done for TD, had it been any one of my nieces, trust me when I say I would have done more. A guy lays a hand on one of my nieces, he'll be lucky if all that happens is he loses that hand. I've said it before, and I'll say it again....you don't fuck with Jester, you don't fuck with Jester's friends, but you sure as HELL don't fuck with Jester's nieces!

And to all who read this, who recognise themselves in either role in this drama: ensure TD didn't die for nothing. Take her death as a warning, and seek help. Now. Today.

Please. If you see any parallels here to your own life, this should be a wakeup call for you to take different steps then were taken in this tragedy. Since I doubt that most abusers would give two diddly shits about changing, I am imploring you ladies with every ounce of my being to use this tragedy as an example of what not to do, and if you find yourself in a relationship like this, remember: he won't change. It won't change. It won't get better. It can only end in horrible, brutal tragedy. Get. Out. NOW.

I feel obligated, though, to point out that posting threats of violence against BB is but a hair's breadth from condoning the very violence we despise BB for. Violence against any person, regardless of reason, is to be abhorred and I believe that we dishonour TD's memory as a sweet and gentle person by planning the drawn-out death of BB - as much as he may deserve it.

I would like to respectfully disagree.

BB deserves any violence coming to him, whereas TD did not. BB abused a sweet person half his size. TD did no such thing.

If someone takes it upon themselves to remove BB from the planet, very few people will shed a tear over him, and I kind of doubt the cops would mind all that much either.

This doesn't dishonor TD. Allowing an evil fucker like BB to roam free without any repercussions for his actions.....THAT dishonors TD's memory far more, if you ask me.

I honestly and sincerely believe that BB deserves to have the most horrible, painful, evil, brutal things done to him, for a long, long time. Does this sound vindictive? Well, news flash: I am VERY vindictive. I hope this bastard suffers a slow and excrutiatingly painful death. I PRAY for it.

I understand your viewpoint. I do. I just don't agree with it. I hope you can understand that.

In a minor update, at the request of her parents, TD will be cremated. I have no other news on this whole thing.

Other than to say that this song has never meant so much to me.

"A friend of a friend....a friend to the end....that's the kind of girl she was...."

[Seshat]

Since I doubt that most abusers would give two diddly shits about changing,

Most don't, that's true. But some do. Usually the ones willing to change are the ones who are suffering in some way and the abuse is a symptom: in those cases, clearing the main problem up does a great deal towards fixing the abuse. But they still need help to change the behaviour patterns they developed while they were suffering, and which are now harming their lives.

Most commonly, in my limited experience of abusers-willing-to-change, the core problem is that they themselves were abused. In those cases, they need to separate themselves from their abusers and they need to learn how to make healthy relationships - while unlearning most of what they know about relationships.
Other causes can be psychiatric illness, or physical illness that has psychiatric side-effects. An abuser who 'just can't help it' should get a thorough physical and psychiatric assessment. Once their illness is treated, they'll need help to get rid of the behaviours they'd developed that were adaptations to the illness, and to learn how to cope better with any aspects of the illness which can't be completely cured.

A happy story: I know a man who suffered childhood abuse, and had all the behaviour patterns and problems common to such cases. He recovered, and raised a family, and was a generally good man with a basically happy life. It can be done: it should be done with professional help.

Be aware that it might well take months, years or even decades before you're 'safe'. However, your quality of life will improve within weeks.



WARNING for victims:
If you are being abused, DON'T TAKE THIS POST AS A REASON TO STAY. Get out, get to a safe distance, stay at that safe distance. Let other people be the ones to help your ex: you and your ex will both have behaviour patterns that will trigger the abuse pattern.
That's right: you could make it HARDER for him (or her) to change.

Only go back if BOTH his counsellor AND your counsellor believe it to be safe and helpful to do so, and ONLY once YOU have recovered from the abuse as well.

It will probably take years for you both to recover. Not days, weeks or months. Years, and possibly decades. Discuss with your counsellor whether it's healthy for you to wait those years: it probably isn't. Not for either side.

There will be someone else for you. There will be someone else for your ex. Give your ex the space he/she needs to recover. And give yourself that space too.

I honestly and sincerely believe that BB deserves to have the most horrible, painful, evil, brutal things done to him, for a long, long time. Does this sound vindictive? Well, news flash: I am VERY vindictive. I hope this bastard suffers a slow and excrutiatingly painful death. I PRAY for it.

You don't torture a dog with rabies. You put it to death as quickly, mercifully, and safely as you can.

If BB is one of those people born without empathy for others, born without a conscience, and unable or unwilling to strive to develop one, then nothing you can do will teach him any better. He'll never understand, never get it. Lock him up or put him to death (let's leave THAT debate for Fratching).

If he is capable of empathy, if he does have a conscience, then to cure him you need to appeal to that conscience. Need to somehow get him to understand what he did. I know curing him is probably not what you want right now: but if it were me, part of me would be wanting to make that #$&*^%#$@ understand what he did, make him feel it. I suspect that's part of what you're feeling.
Tormenting another person usually just makes them even more angry, rather than more compassionate.

On top of all of that, tormenting another person does something to the person doing it. Makes them somehow colder, changes who they are. I don't imagine TD would want to have her friends become colder and have them hurt inside like that.

Yes, I think BB should be put on trial, punished, and - if he's one of those who can't or won't ever understand what he did - stay separated from mainstream society for life. No, I don't think him suffering torments will do anyone any good.

But a small part of me wants him to get a chronic, disabling, painful illness.

[marasbaras]

_IF_ BB is the killer, violence isn't justified. Just a swift and certain death.