Computer Advice: Opinions Welcomed!

[Jester]

This has been a long time coming, but now it is the time. I'm getting a laptop. And I need your help in deciding what I should get. Why am I getting a laptop? Because my current computer is a desktop that I got over ten years ago, that I have had my roommate modify and fix from time to time, but it is slow, it is ponderous, it freezes up a lot, it is limited, and it is distinctly not portable. I want to get at least a bit more modern than this clunky thing I have, and I want to get a laptop that will eventually replace the desktop, though I plan on keeping the desktop as a backup for files and such. But for every day use, I want to get something that doesn't run on a hamster's wheel or need a size 9 Nike kicking it in its ass to reboot from time to time as my desktop seems to.

Here is what I use a computer for: writing, storing text files, storing pictures, surfing the web, instant messaging, social networking, and occasionally watching videos. What I don't need a computer for is gaming, as the most complex game I play is Airport Madness (which is fun, but doesn't require a whole lot of gaming-type computer stuff). Hell, the game I play most often on my computer is Minesweeper, though I wouldn't mind not having that on my laptop, as I am rather addicted to it, and once I start playing it, I sometimes do so for way too long. (Though, to my credit, I am DAMN good at it!)

What I want is a laptop that is big enough to type comfortably on and to read without having a tiny screen (I've been looking at 15" and 17" screen models) but still small enough to be portable. I don't plan on going out a lot with my computer, but occasionally would be nice, especially when I travel, as I've been known to do. I am not interested in those tiny little netbooks, notebooks, or whatever the hell they are. Too small for a daily use computer, which is what I'm looking for.

My roommate is a computer nerd and a computer tech, and has told me that I will not get nearly the computer capabilities in a laptop that I would in a desktop. But he is basically a hermit gamer that doesn't leave the house much, and the computer system that he built for himself is about as simple as NASA's Mission Control. So his opinion is biased towards what he thinks a computer should be, and can't really focus on what I need or want.

Now, all of the above I already knew, and I've been shopping for a laptop. I've found a few decent ones, but Key West is kind of limited in what they have to offer, though I think I can probably get something worthy even down here. Here is the crux of my problem: Apple or PC.

The desktop is a PC, and I am quite used to those, but many people tell me Apples are superior in many ways, and a lot of the people that I've talked to who have Apples swear up and down by them. But for what I'm looking at, it looks like it would be about $500 for a PC vs. $1,000 for an Apple. Huge difference in cost, and that is before I purchase the accessories I know I'm going to get (external mouse, as I hate those touch pad mice, and a carrying case, preferably of the backpack variety).

I want a computer that will be durable and not obsolete in six months. I don't need the Next Best Thing, I don't need the Latest Wow Check That Out computer, I just need something that will be reliable, durable, and workable for the next several years. Yes, years. My computing needs are simple, and if this desktop which dates back to the Eisenhower Administration has been good enough for the last ten years, then the next one should do the same, damn it.

So, do I save money on the PC, or do I go whole hog on the Apple? It's a big decision, and one of the most expensive purchases I've made in my life (along with my cars and my one bike), especially since I have no plans of buying a house.

CSers, help me out here....what do you think?

P.S. Am I the only one that thinks Ellen Page is sexy as hell?

EDITED TO ADD: Are refurbished laptops like I might find on Overstock or Amazon worth a damn, or are they all pretty much lame and/or older models? Anyone have any experience with this? Or Dell? Etc.?

[jnd4rusty]

Hey Jester, I purchased a Toshiba Sattelite A665 at Best Buy in January and I really like it. I also purchased a wireless mouse and wireless router and the total came to $816.00. ( I also purchased the Geek Squad set up option and Kaspersky Anti virus so that is part of the eight hundred dollar price also). Mine has a 17 inch screen and I also have a 10 key on the side, I purposely opted for that because I work with numbers in school and wanted something easy for homework. It is perfect for typing, there is plenty of room for my wrists to relax and I find it easier to type on then my desktop. I hope that helps..I am not computer savvy but I feel I made a good purchase as I had checked out reviews of every computer out there and went with the one that had the highest rating in my price range. It comes with cool features such as face recognition (I have not set that up yet), I still have to explore more but like I said, I really like it.

[RapidPad0]

Ooo! Laptop shopping, welcome to my world a few years ago.

I settled on a refurbished gaming laptop myself to suit my needs, but seriously I suggest looking on websites like Newegg.com and Tigerdirect.com. They are online computer specific stores that always have decent deals going on, and they're trustworthy in my experience of buying machines and parts off of them.

If you are looking for portability I would go for 15", since most laptop bags are suited for 15" laptops. Also good luck plopping a 17" laptop on those airplane drop down trays in Economy class.

As for Apple or PC, unless you want to deal with software compatibility issues, or are some sort of digital artist, DON'T GET AN APPLE. DO NOT. STAY AWAY. NO. DON'T.

From what I understand your needs require a fairly basic laptop, not a fancypants Apple. Don't waste your money. Apples are good for other things since they come bundled with pretty decent art/film software but other than that they're a little overpriced. They're also more secure since most malicious software is written for PCs. So I've heard.

As for refurbished, I have owned my refurb laptop for nearly 3 years without any major issues. It's an Asus brand, so I'm not sure about other brands. I've also had great experiences with HP computers/laptops.

So that's my 2 cents. Happy Shopping!

[Kittish]

First off, a disclaimer. It's been several years since I owned a laptop, so my information might be a bit out of date.

Secondly, the experience I've had with laptops: I have had several of them over the years and there is one thing I've run into again and again. Laptops just can't compete with desktop systems for longevity. The biggest problem I've run into repeatedly is that with frequent use the cooling systems on laptops break down, which to a computer is death. The little cooling fans die, the heat sinks get overloaded, the innards of the machine get clogged up with dust and stuff (and it's a stone BITCH, or was, to crack open the case to clean inside).

When I was using laptops, they all had proprietary hardware, meaning that you couldn't just swap out a dying or dead fan or hard drive or anything else for another one, it had to go back to the manufacturer for any repairs (repair cost for almost any issue usually wound up being more than the machine had cost in the first place). Try to find one that doesn't have this problem. Also, I'd recommend that you try to locate a good, reliable laptop repair tech in your area BEFORE your purchase (your roommate, even if he is anti-social, just might know of one or two good local computer techs).

I second the suggestion to check out Newegg.com, though I'm not familiar with Tigerdirect.com. I also second the don't get an Apple, unless you do lots of heavy graphics and/or write lots of computer code (my friend the computer god makes his living writing code, and uses Apples for it).

One other bit of advice: Get more computer than you think you need. It gives you the option of getting your processor and/or video card(s) deliberately UNDERclocked, which cuts down quite a lot on cooling issues. My friend the computer god recently did this with his massive work station computer network in his office, and the room temperature dropped by something like 5 degrees just from that. The core temps of the computers in question dropped by 10 degrees or more.

[draggar]

DellOutlet.com usually has some great deals. I've gotten two "scratch and dent" computers form them in a row. The first one had a scratch on the Microsoft sticker (the one on the back) and the second (purchased recently) had smudges on it (15 minutes with a damp cloth cleaned it up - saved me $400). I've been very happy with them.

I'd suggest a PC, Intel i5 system (3.0 GHz?). Ram - you'd be fine with 4GB, even "shared" (meaning video uses that memory, too). A dedicated video card would be nicer, but not critical with your system (512MB on it at least). If you go with a cheaper i3 system definitely get one with a dedicated video card. 6GB of RAM would be better.

I think laptops are coming with 500GB hard drives now, this should be more than enough. If 1TB isn't much more, spoil yourself.

Get Windows 7 64-bit. It will be able to take advantage of ALL the ram.

Now, here's a suggestion - after you get it look at the connections. If it can connect to a monitor, get one (22" are cheap now) and use it at home. A nice wireless keyboard and mouse combo would be helpful, too (especially if you're going to use it at a desk.

Extra bonus - try to get HDMI on it so you can connect it to a modern TV (if you want).

[Fire_on_High]

Apple stuff can be good and if you buy Applecare, the warranty support is positively superb unless you did something truly knuckleheaded to it, and even then quite frequently they're sympathetic if you're honest.

OTOH, it's quite pricey and you could buy a lot more pc for the same cash, including a very swanky extended warranty. Any laptop you buy, make sure beforehand about how reliable warranty repairs are...some companies will do anything to prevent having to let one penny go, and others are pretty decent to work with.

Laptops seem to need mfg repairs more often than desktops, so...

[Imprl59]

Any computer you buy is going to be obsolete in six months. That's just the way the industry is and it's especially true with laptops as there isn't so much you can upgrade with them.

I would stick with PC. Get something with Windows 7 64 bit. 4 gigs of memory. I like the Intel i5 processors but I would settle for an i3 if the price was right. Personally I'm an Intel / Toshiba fan and I sell a ton of Toshiba refurbs. Have yet to have a single issue with them.

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...&seg=HHO&sel=3 If that link doesn't work go to the Toshiba website, consumer, laptop and search for refurbished. I really like the C655 on there and the L650

Watch the keyboard on all of them, especially those with a number pad. They sometimes will shrink some keys to make room for everything. On my current laptop the . and / are half keys shift is 3/4. I've had it since the day Vista was introduced and I still miss those damn keys all the time. Also look at port placement. As laptops have gotten thiner they quit putting things on the back and are putting things on the front. I see a lot of them with the headphone jack right in front of the touch pad so if you have external speakers or headphones in you are constantly being aggravated by the plug. The 17" screen is nice to have but makes the unit much less convenient for carrying around.

[Jester]

Thanks for all the responses so far, and please keep them coming. My comments on your comments:

I also purchased a wireless mouse and wireless router and the total came to $816.00. ( I also purchased the Geek Squad set up option and Kaspersky Anti virus so that is part of the eight hundred dollar price also).

I plan on getting a wireless mouse, as I said, but I won't need the wireless router (we have a wireless network in the apartment), and my roommate is my personal Geek Squad, though I'm sure I'll get the anti-virus. Just out of curiousity, what IS the set up option?

I also have a 10 key on the side, I purposely opted for that because I work with numbers in school and wanted something easy for homework.

I don't work with numbers and I am no longer in school, but I often use my 10 key on my desktop for online banking, among other things, so I am thinking that, if possible, a 10 key on my laptop would be a nice addition, though of course it will not be the determining factor in my purchase.

If you are looking for portability I would go for 15", since most laptop bags are suited for 15" laptops. Also good luck plopping a 17" laptop on those airplane drop down trays in Economy class.

This is good information to know, and something I had not considered, but overall I do believe I was leaning towards the smaller 15.6" over the 17", for reasons such as this.

As for Apple or PC, unless you want to deal with software compatibility issues, or are some sort of digital artist, DON'T GET AN APPLE. DO NOT. STAY AWAY. NO. DON'T.

From what I understand your needs require a fairly basic laptop, not a fancypants Apple. Don't waste your money. Apples are good for other things since they come bundled with pretty decent art/film software but other than that they're a little overpriced. They're also more secure since most malicious software is written for PCs. So I've heard.

Well, I am not a digital artist in any way, but the reason I am considering an Apple is because they are supposed to be more durable and, as you noted, more resistant to viruses, as the vast majority of viruses and malware are aimed squarely at PC's. If the thing will last me longer and be more durable, I don't mind paying more. Just trying to decide if it's really worth it. Obviously I know your opinion.

I've also had great experiences with HP computers/laptops.

Interesting. Especially since everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, that I've talked to when shopping has told me point blank to avoid HP, as they are basically inferior, despite their once proud history.

Laptops just can't compete with desktop systems for longevity.

This I did not know, and is a very useful bit of information. This could well steer me towards the more inexpensive PC over the Apple.

Does anyone else have any opinions or facts on this? This is something that I think is very important, as I want to make a purchase that will last some time.

I'd recommend that you try to locate a good, reliable laptop repair tech in your area BEFORE your purchase (your roommate, even if he is anti-social, just might know of one or two good local computer techs).

I don't know if he knows of any, but he IS one, so that's kind of cool.

Get more computer than you think you need.

That I had already planned on. Better to have it and not need than need it and not have it. But, that being said, it's still important to know that I am not a gamer type, so that kind of ridiculously high end graphics capability is not something I'd really need or need to worry about.

Now, here's a suggestion - after you get it look at the connections. If it can connect to a monitor, get one (22" are cheap now) and use it at home. A nice wireless keyboard and mouse combo would be helpful, too (especially if you're going to use it at a desk.

Extra bonus - try to get HDMI on it so you can connect it to a modern TV (if you want).

I have a wireless keyboard and mouse already, though I don't know if either or both would be compatible with whatever laptop I buy. I guess it would make sense to find this out before purchasing a second mouse that I may or may not need.

That being said, I don't picture myself typing on a secondary keyboard or using a secondary monitor for my laptop, even though it is basically going to be my desktop. It has a monitor, it has a keyboard. Of course, I can probably have my roommate help me figure out how to connect it to my desktop's monitor if need be, as that is a pretty decent fairly large monitor. The idea of hooking it up to my tv is actually rather intriguing, though what I would do with that is beyond me.

(I know, I know...the internet is for pron. Shut up. )

The real trick to getting a longer life out of a laptop is to use it on hard, flat surfaces rather than your lap, couch, bed, etc.

My basic plan is for it to be on my desk or kitchen table or a bar or wherever most times, and perhaps to get one of those laptop portable desk boards, the things you put on your lap for your laptop when you're out and about, for traveling purchases. Anyone have any comments on those? (Plus, that would be good for my bed too, don't ya think?)

Any computer you buy is going to be obsolete in six months. That's just the way the industry is and it's especially true with laptops as there isn't so much you can upgrade with them.

Ah, but I don't need the Latest and Greatest, just something I can work with and that suits my needs. When I said I don't want something that will be obsolete in a short time, I meant completely obsolete. As in, pointless to bother to try to use. Not obsolete in the sense of my phone, which is still not a smart phone, being obsolete compared to all the smart phones out there. Make sense?

Watch the keyboard on all of them, especially those with a number pad. They sometimes will shrink some keys to make room for everything.

Actually, that is one thing that has been a priority for me. I do a lot of typing on my computer, and I type very fast, so it has to be a comfortable keyboard for me to type on, or it's a wasted purchase for me. If I can't fly, I won't buy. So, no shrunken keys for me!

I see a lot of them with the headphone jack right in front of the touch pad so if you have external speakers or headphones in you are constantly being aggravated by the plug.

That won't be as much as an issue for me as it would be for some people, as I despise touch pad mice, and have no plans of using one, already knowing that I will be using an external mouse. Touch pads suck.

Keep the comments coming, folks! I really want to have my laptop soon, but I want to have as much information as possible before I plunk down several hundred dollars for it!

[Jester]

If you aren't doing serious graphic design then you really shouldn't need an Apple, to be honest.

I won't be doing any graphic design, serious or frivolous. I think I've been in my paint program once or less in the last year, to be perfectly honest.

That being said, lots of people I know or have met who are not graphic artists, including computer people (but not including my computer tech roommate) swear up and down by the Apple. You say no. Why?

A lot does depend upon how you treat the laptop - you don't want to be banging the thing around, possibly shifting interior components out of whack.

I plan on it spending the majority of its time sitting on my desk or kitchen table.

The one thing I am a bit abusive with is keyboards. I tend to type fast, and because of the way I learned how to type (on a manual typewriter), I tend to really beat the keys. Try as I might to type more softly, it is just not in my nature or muscle memory to do so. So I need a laptop that is not a pansy when it comes to having its keys beat on. Part of the reason I've been looking for something durable.

[draggar]

I don't see why your wireless keyboard and mouse wouldn't be compatible, the interface is pretty standard especially if they are USB.

[Sonoma]

Happy laptop shopping! Another Toshiba user here. Mine's almost 2 years old, Win 7 64 bit. The only problem I've had (so far) is an occasional 'not wanting to boot & no display' problem that started last week after a friend splashed some lemonade on the back & near the power switch. Friend will be paying for any necessary repairs.

I've got a Toshiba Satellite A505-S6980 I bought at Best Buy in Dec of 2009.
500G HD, 4G of RAM, with a 16" display. 3 USB ports, which are great for my USB wireless mouse & iPod charging. It does have HDMI ports, which came in handy when the display started having problems last week. Being able to run it through the 47" HDTV is nice. In my group of laptop-using friends, we've got about 3-4 Toshibas and a few Dells. My Dell that I bought in 2006 served me well, but did have some problems w/ lines developing in the display, which is why I replaced it. I gave it to my sister, and she's using it to this day.

The 10-key keypad is nice. Even though I don't do a lot of number-crunching, it is something I do use. The keyboard is good sized. I don't really notice a difference between the laptop & my work desktop.

[Sapphire Silk]

Any computer you buy is going to be obsolete in six months. That's just the way the industry is and it's especially true with laptops as there isn't so much you can upgrade with them..

Quoted for truth. This is particularly true for PCs. Apples have more staying power.

If you can afford it, I would buy a Mac, quite frankly. I have had both; I vastly prefer my MacBook Pro. And while I do some video stuff on it for my job (my lectures are online as podcasts that I make with iMovie), I don't do much graphic art either.

Here's the advantages:

Durability. Macs rarely breakdown well after their warranty period is over. If you have the AppleCare protection plan (well worth the $$ due to the free tech support for 3 years), then you will be able to replace it if it fails for any reason that doesn't involve stupidity (like spilling beer on the keyboard).

Reliability: Macs seldom crash. There are fewer trojans, viruses, or other malicious software written for them: too time consuming and difficult for the small market share of users. I still use anti virus software though.

Software: Macs come loaded with well written free software: iMovie, Safari, iDvd, iCal, iPhoto, and more. You'll get a trial of Office for Mac, which is a very good version of Windows Office with some minor difference and complete portability in document reading.

Games would only be an issue if you were a serious gamer: sounds like you're into common games that are available on the Mac platform. Mac versions of popular games tend to come out slightly later than Windows versions though software publishers seem to be getting hip to the devoted gamers among Mac fans.

My last Mac laptop was a 17" Macbook Pro, the last Motorla chipset they made. I had it 3 years and then sold it two years ago to my niece who is still using it.

My current Mac I've had two years. My desktop is a 10 year old iMac that still works great but that I never use because I do everything on my laptop. I've had other iMacs, one got sold after 4 years, the other died after two (but I ran it hot with a lot of intensive work at the time, so no wonder).

If you are really interested in a Mac, you can save several hundred bucks buying refurbished from the Apple store. If that is still too pricey, try eBay. I've bought Macs there and always been happy, and you can get great prices that way.

[BlaqueKatt]

That being said, lots of people I know or have met who are not graphic artists, including computer people (but not including my computer tech roommate) swear up and down by the Apple. You say no. Why?

I say no apple because they use the exact same hardware as pc's but charge a premium for it, as well as their proprietary accessories.(seriously, now that they use intel chips that extra $500 is for the name and the shiny packaging) Which is why they're so "stable and durable". PC operating systems(windows, linux, and such) have to work on any computer with any configuration of components, Mac OS only has to work with the specific number of permutations they allow. As such they attempt to keep the system "locked down" as it were and only allow the use of peripherals such as keyboard, mouse, speakers etc. manufactured by Apple. Use of any accessories not made by Apple voids your warranty....if it even works, as device drivers for Apple products must be written by Apple or the OS may not install them.

[Aramika]

My basic plan is for it to be on my desk or kitchen table or a bar or wherever most times, and perhaps to get one of those laptop portable desk boards, the things you put on your lap for your laptop when you're out and about, for traveling purchases. Anyone have any comments on those? (Plus, that would be good for my bed too, don't ya think?)

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Targus+-...&skuId=9427042 - that's the one I suggest, I've used that model for 3 years now. I like it because it's made out of neoprene so it's comfortable for your lap and won't scratch any table you put it on. One thing you should check before you buy a laptop mat is the placement of its fans. Make sure that they help cool down whatever part of the laptop heats up the most. They won't do much good otherwise.

[Gravekeeper]

I say no apple because they use the exact same hardware as pc's but charge a premium for it, as well as their proprietary accessories.

Yep, this is in a nutshell. You are, for all extensive purposes, paying an extra $500 just for that little Apple logo. Same hardware, twice the price, plus the head ache of dealing with a propriety system. Also, to be bluntly honest, you don't need to worry about viruses, malware, etc with a PC unless you're a god damn idiot that runs every program emailed to him from Nigeria. I can't remember the last time I had a virus, and its not by virtue of having amazing security software on my PC. It's just that I'm not a moron. Just slap on a free antivirus ( Avast is good ) and forgot about it.

As already mentioned, unless you're a serious graphic designer or 3D modeller, you don't need an Apple. The mark up you pay for the brand name alone isn't worth it.

Basically, think of Apple as designer clothing that can only be worn together with other clothes from the same brand. -.-