need advice and need to rant

[Seshat]

Both you and Maria need to know this:

Maria may well develop (or have) concern for children of her family. Nieces and nephews. As I have told my own loved ones: "Alice and Johnny (not their real names) have done nothing to me." (Other than the things all infants do: pee on you, throw up on you, drop things on you....)

For the sake of the kids, I stay in touch with, and on 'good terms' (so they think) with my relatives. It's a tricky line to walk, and if Maria wants to do that, it'll take diplomacy from both of you.
That said, the best thing for the kids might be a call to social services. It's hard to say. And you will NOT be able to do ANYTHING for the kids if you're a total mess from having had to deal with the toxic family yourselves. The kids may well be better helped by someone who's emotionally separate from the situation; such as a social worker.

Finally: Maria herself.
I'm seeing a therapist - in my case, a mental health nurse - to help me recover from my own toxic childhood. She's helped me discover problems dating back to infancy, and possibly even the in-uteri period. (It turns out Mum was grieving during that period, and noone's entirely sure how much that affects what crosses the placenta.)

I recommend some sort of therapy for Maria: either with or without a therapist. I know you say you don't have much money right now, but Maria can start her therapy by kneading dough, painting (and yes, children's fingerpaints and butcher's paper is fine), playing music, writing letters that never get sent.....

My therapist says that some research has shown that what matters most in therapy is not the actual type of therapy, but the relationship between therapist and patient. So if you do end up seeking formal therapy, give it a couple of sessions to see if you 'click' with the therapist, but don't be afraid of deciding to try someone else.

[42_42_42]

Congratulations!

From the info you've relayed here, sounds like she's made the right choice in cutting all ties to her toxic family. Now the two of you can concentrate on forging your own family of two (plus cats).

[Pixilated]

Can't think of anything to add in the advice line, and sounds like you two have it well in hand anyway pbw. it's just one of those situations where doing the right and correct things just doesn't make it any easier.

What stuns me about the whole deal is that people like her parents continue to do this kind of thing despite exposure from all sorts of media, but especially television, about how pointless and destructive it is. Do they think "Oh, sure, we've seen how harmful meddling in a new marriage is, but we're different?"

Ditto here. It definitely does sound as if you two have things well in hand -- kudos to you both!

sms001, people who indulge in this sort of behaviour do indeed think their situation is different because, you see, they only have the best interests of their offspring at heart, while those other cases are clearly just meddling fools who don't know when to let go ...

[paintballworker]

First off, thank you all for letting me vent and for all the congrats. maria also thanks you, your advice gave her the courage to do the following.

Maria decided to cut all contact with her family("its not worth it, plus I've got your aunt's" who treats Maria like their own daughter). She emailed her parents telling that she has chosen me(her new family) over them(her relatives), and that they won't be seeing any grandkids(proper grandkids*) from her any time soon.

And this morning, I took her out for a breakfast date(we try and do that at least once a month), I told her I got her a surprise, after the past couple of days, she deserves it. She tried to say she doesn't need a surprise, just a nice long vacation.

The surprise: We got married this morning, got in line first

I told her I didn't want to wait till November, and give her parents more chances to attempt to ruin us. For the first time since we started dating, she was speechless. Right now, she's off downtown with some of her girlfriend's shopping(I sent her off so I could get the house ready for tonight--i invited my two aunts up.)

So yeah....I'm now married, never been happier Now if I can get Loki to stand still so I can put them downstairs(my aunts have a German Sheppard named Thor....you can imagine what happens when those two get together.

*the sister situation--Maria has a younger sister(by about a year), who has decided it to make it her mission to repopulate Canada. 6 kids from 6 different father's, no job, tried to get me to loan her money or in one case, claim paternity. Whenever we talked, we ended up cussing and yelling at each other(she called Maria a slut for just dating me). Grrrr, just typing this makes me want to punch the wall.

[sms001]

Can't think of anything to add in the advice line, and sounds like you two have it well in hand anyway pbw. it's just one of those situations where doing the right and correct things just doesn't make it any easier.

What stuns me about the whole deal is that people like her parents continue to do this kind of thing despite exposure from all sorts of media, but especially television, about how pointless and destructive it is. Do they think "Oh, sure, we've seen how harmful meddling in a new marriage is, but we're different?"

[DeltaSierra]

You've got each other - #1 prioroty is to focus on that.

#2 would be (IMHO) to officially dismiss that toxic family of hers from your lives. Block their phones, remove them from FB or any othe social messaging, ignore emails. They have to learn that behavior like that has consequences. Nobody should EVER treat somebody the way her mom treated her. E.V.E.R.

After you do that, take a deep breath. You two have love on your side. Never underestimate how powerful that is

[paintballworker]

Maria just got back, we spent some time discussing her side of the family, as well as mine(I'm not squeaky-clean in this either). I try, REALLY try, not to criticize her family but they make it so goddamn hard.

Maria has decided that shes no longer willing to put up with all the crap her parents and siblings toss her way. She's given them a choice...accept her decisions and her choices....or FO&DIAF. And she dropped the ultimate bombshell....no kids for the foreseeable future, and even if we did, THEY are not WELCOME.

I asked her why this hard-line stance.

Her mom called last night, and spent the entire conversation trying to convince her that I was useless, would be a horrible father, and a myriad list of things. When Maria hung up halfway into her tirade about me not being Jewish, she called back and left a message, THAT LEFT MY WIFE IN TEARS!

Excuse the language but fuck this family. I've tried, but I'm not marrying them, I'm marrying her. So tempted to just go down to city hall and get it done today.

FYI, Maria and I thank all of you, your advice has been noted and we have.enough understanding to know when we need help. I just needed to vent.

[Pixilated]

*snip*

As for distance, her parents live in Windsor, and we live in Ottawa. And as for their 'say', they keep saying "your our child, we can decide what is best for you". Loki and Horus keep twitching and trying to calm Maria down after a 5min conversation with her mom.

I feel like crap because I can handle the worst SC's life can throw me, but my future in-laws are driving me to drink. We had our first true 'fight' tonight because of them. I love Maria, I can't imagine my life without her in it, and I want to spend the rest of my life with her...but her family is trying to drive a wedge between us.

Well, that's a good physical distance, anyway, LOL.

No, they can NOT decide what is best for Maria, unless you are a cradle-robber and she is a legal minor. Unfortunately it may take some nasty conversations before they finally realize this -- and they may never accept it 100%. The best you two can do is put up a wall and let them bang their heads against it until they knock themselves out.

Hope your fight ended with or resulted in a good discussion. Both of you need to keep in mind that they can only drive a wedge between you two if you allow it. You might want to consider couples' counseling to try to head off such battles in future.

And if I may make another suggestion on your part ... try hard not to say unpleasant things about her family. She is well aware they are a source of trouble and you know she is already on your side, but they are her family and people can become defensive of even the biggest PITA if it's a relative. Sympathize and empathize, but try not to criticize. Much.

[paintballworker]

*deep breath*

After last nights 'fight', I had spent the night at the paintball field, I came back to the house to apologize. I found a note.

"Dear Ian.
Love you, there is lunch in the fridge, Portal 2 in the 360 and Earth shock in the bluray. I need to be at the law office, but I'm sorry. Love you.
Maria"

This is why I'm marrying her .

I've loaded this thread on her laptop so when she gets back, she can read your comments and I can update as needed.

[mjr]

Dumb question, but what are pastrami and matzoh balls?

And why do they go in soup?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastrami

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matzo_ball_soup

[fireheart]

If they're complaining about the possibility that you won't raise any future children Jewish, if you wanted to you could always tell them that you'll incorporate aspects of Jewish culture into the upbringing. At my house, we have a Menorah and a Christmas tree. That's all I'll say, there. We occasionally have home-made pastrami and matzoh ball soup. Occasionally you'll hear a Yiddish word or two...

Dumb question, but what are pastrami and matzoh balls?

And why do they go in soup?

[mjr]

And as for their 'say', they keep saying "your our child, we can decide what is best for you".

They're looking at it wrong. Sure, it's the parent in them wanting what they feel is "best" for their kids, but they also have to remember that the two of you are grown adults, and can make decisions for yourselves, whether your parents like them or not. Some family members can just be travel agents for guilt trips.

Also, lay down boundaries! Have clear demarcations as to where those boundaries are. In other words, if you and your future wife (congrats, by the way) decide to have children, well those are your children, not your parent's children. That means that you decide how to raise them. You decide what to name them. If either of your parents don't like it, well that's just their problem.

If they're complaining about the possibility that you won't raise any future children Jewish, if you wanted to you could always tell them that you'll incorporate aspects of Jewish culture into the upbringing. At my house, we have a Menorah and a Christmas tree. That's all I'll say, there. We occasionally have home-made pastrami and matzoh ball soup. Occasionally you'll hear a Yiddish word or two...

[paintballworker]

Thank You. And at the moment, Maria is handling the "discussions" were her side of the family after her sister and I...had a few words.

As for distance, her parents live in Windsor, and we live in Ottawa. And as for their 'say', they keep saying "your our child, we can decide what is best for you". Loki and Horus keep twitching and trying to calm Maria down after a 5min conversation with her mom.

I feel like crap because I can handle the worst SC's life can throw me, but my future in-laws are driving me to drink. We had our first true 'fight' tonight because of them. I love Maria, I can't imagine my life without her in it, and I want to spend the rest of my life with her...but her family is trying to drive a wedge between us.

[Pixilated]

Eloping is fine, but that only covers the wedding. Then there's the rest of your lives together ...

The important thing is that the two of you stay on the same page so you can present a united front, both on the issues and on the tactics you'll use. It sounds like you're already there, so that's a great start.

Just keep saying "No, that won't be possible." Alternately, remember that "NO" by itself is a full sentence. Don't let them back you into an argument. If you're on the phone and the conversation/nagging/whining is getting out of hand, don't be afraid to hang up. IF you can get a word in edgewise, you can say, "This conversation is over. Goodbye!" But you're not obliged to say anything. The "click" and the dial tone will say it all.

Initially you might try the 'broken record' technique. The main trick is to keep a level, flat voice throughout:

You: "No, I'm sorry, that's not possible."

Other Person: "But why?? I really need your help/someplace to live/some money/a ticket to Mars."

You: "I'm sorry, that's not possible."

OP: "But WHYYYY? I really NEEED it!!"

You: "I'm sorry, that's not possible."

OP: "But we're FAAAAAMILYYYYY. WHYYYYY won't you help meeee???"

You: "I'm sorry, that's not possible."

The idea is to frustrate the other person so thoroughly that they give up and go pester somebody else. You are offering no arguments that they can shoot down, just a flat refusal. Repeatedly.

Would putting physical distance between you two and her family help? If you think it will, do what you can without forcing yourselves into four-hour commutes to your jobs, LOL.

Do you have caller ID? That gives you the choice, when they call, of whether you want to answer the phone at that time.

And unless they are contributing at least some money to the wedding, they have NO say in the ceremony or the guest list.

Oh, and , and wishing you both a long and happy marriage!

[fireheart]

I was married for a week before anyone in our families knew, but we also lived thousands of miles away. Elope/go to city hall on your own and get married. If they want a big shindig they can pay for a reception somewhere after you tell them you two are already married.

Or throw a second wedding.

Little fun factoid of the day: France only legally recognises civil ceremonies since they take the church/state separation very seriously. So those couples that DO want a religious ceremony will get married quickly in the town hall, then go and have their big shindig elsewhere. Those couples that don't want a religious ceremony can have a more lavish civil one. The basic civil ceremony is free.

If they object, just tell them that you're doing it French-style!