Doctor Who Discussion [Spoiler Zone!]

[Kheldarson]

I'm not really up on classic Who, so thanks for the info I'll see if I can find that story though!

[KatherineB]

You're welcome! It's definitely my favourite Baker story!

[Jester]

At first I thought this was going to be a lame rehash of when Rose attempted to go back and save her father. And then, amazingly, Moffat (who did write this one) turned the whole thing on its head and gave us what we saw. Personally, I think it was one of the strongest episodes of this season, though of course it did not have its flaws.

As for the Cybermen, I knew they'd be involved the moment The Doctor, Clara, and Dr. Chang first walked through those doors, because the Cyberman "eye" was the window of the door. And let's face it, subtlety has not really been a strong suit for Moffat. Still, if I, Mr. Oblivious, get something that quickly, you need to up your game.

Still, all in all, this episode was strong. Can't wait for the next one.

But who knows how long Missy has been at this plot. That's what she probably meant by "dead outnumber the living".

Regardless of how long she has been at this, it's a simply fact of history that, on Earth, those who have lived and died vastly outnumber those who are alive and still living.

[Soulstealer]

I enjoyed this episode if only for giving evidence to so many Master/Doctor fanfictions over the years. And she did a great job capturing the madness I think of that the Master is supposed to have.

[mjr]

It's more a separation between intellect and emotion. The Cybermen are all about reason and logic, viewing emotions as something that holds yo back from perfection. Beyond that, that's more existential than I want to get right now.

Another question from the episode...

The Doctor felt Missy's heartbeat...wouldn't he have immediately noticed that she had TWO hearts, and was therefore Gallifreyan and a Time Lady? It seems like that's something the Doctor would notice...

[Kheldarson]

Another question from the episode...

The Doctor felt Missy's heartbeat...wouldn't he have immediately noticed that she had TWO hearts, and was therefore Gallifreyan and a Time Lady? It seems like that's something the Doctor would notice...

It should be, which is why Missy reemphasized the point when she revealed herself.

But...the Doctor has thought of himself as the last of his race for centuries. The last time he physically encountered his race, he sealed them all away. And she presented herself as being a robot, initially. It's a bit reasonable to think that he ignored the evidence since it was nigh impossible to be true.

[gremcint]

here's the thing about the painting theory, I thought the 3d paintings were still just paintings, not the actual events, kind of like a pocket dimension, so it's not the actual galifrey but just a picture they hid in. I may be totally wrong.

I know at the end what they do with the planet but that was a case of converting the planet using that many tardises to shrink the planet and shove it in a pocket dimension using the painting thing as an inspiration. I don't know what to think now that I look at it, they need to explain it better.

[KhirasHY]

My thoughts:

1) I want the music from Clara's threat scene just after the opening credits. Easily one of the best, and most emotional pieces that Ian Gold has written for the new series.

2) Back after episode 2 or 3 of this season, my roommate and I were talking about DW, and I mentioned how they always enjoyed bringing back old enemies as the nemesis. I specifically mentioned that Missy was due back in the next couple years. Damn I'm good.

3) Cybermen...well, hopefully they use them well. With luck they will be more like Gaimen's cybermen (see Nightmare in Silver) than the crappy Cybermen of past seasons.

4) Seeing the kid in the ipad at the end, does he know that something is wrong? I assume he will stop Danny from pressing the button...do the dead know what's happening in some way?

[Jester]

Easily one of the best, and most emotional pieces that Ian Gold has written for the new series.

Unless I missed something major, I'm pretty sure you mean Murray Gold. Ian Gold is a retired NFL football player.

[KabeRinnaul]

3) Cybermen...well, hopefully they use them well. With luck they will be more like Gaimen's cybermen (see Nightmare in Silver) than the crappy Cybermen of past seasons.

No plz. I hated the new Cybermen. They ceased to be intimidating and became so over-the-top powerful that it was silly. It felt like the episode was written by an overexcited teenage fan of the Cybermen out to prove that no, they could so beat the Daleks.

[wolfie]

Unless I missed something major, I'm pretty sure you mean Murray Gold. Ian Gold is a retired NFL football player.

At least that's not as bad as another name mixup. A few years ago, on Martin Luther King day, one town was going to unveil a plaque celebrating the achievements of James Earl Jones (famous African-American actor, one of his roles being the voice of Darth Vader in the original Star Wars). When the plaque was unveiled, the name on it was James Earl Ray (guy who assassinated MLK). Oops!

[Gizmo]

OK, its been bugging me since I watched the episode.

The dead "feel" what is done to their bodies. Including cremation, the one who "donated his body to science" etc. Yet.... the cybermen have organic skeletons.

So are the bodies in two places at once? Do they manage to stop the cremations? Or are the organic skeletons not those of the original bodies?

[Kheldarson]

OK, its been bugging me since I watched the episode.

The dead "feel" what is done to their bodies. Including cremation, the one who "donated his body to science" etc. Yet.... the cybermen have organic skeletons.

So are the bodies in two places at once? Do they manage to stop the cremations? Or are the organic skeletons not those of the original bodies?

Not entirely sure. One presumes that the Cybermen we've seen are those who donated to the cause (or paid for the privilege). It's possible that after agreeing to the mind wipe Missy saves the body. It's also possible that she can match the now blank souls/consciousnesses with any body, which might be another meaning to her "dead outnumber the living" comment. We haven't been given enough information there.

[KhirasHY]

Unless I missed something major, I'm pretty sure you mean Murray Gold. Ian Gold is a retired NFL football player.

Derp, yeah, I was a bit tired and drunk when I wrote that

Edit: Also, the Doctor mentions that the people who are in the mausoleum are those rich enough to have paid for it. Meanwhile, the Nethersphere could easily be catching people from all over the country/world as they die, so naturally there would be far too many to fit in one building. Quite a few of those bodies would be in morgues, crematoriums, and...well, for at lease one unfortunate guy, in a laboratory.

[Shangri-laschild]

The Doctor felt Missy's heartbeat...wouldn't he have immediately noticed that she had TWO hearts, and was therefore Gallifreyan and a Time Lady? It seems like that's something the Doctor would notice...

There have been plenty of times when the Doctor misses very obvious stuff. Like when Rory came back and he stood there talking to Rory the Roman about how he was sure he was missing something obvious. He seems to take in lots of information and then slowly process it as he explores, this time being no different.

here's the thing about the painting theory, I thought the 3d paintings were still just paintings, not the actual events, kind of like a pocket dimension, so it's not the actual galifrey but just a picture they hid in. I may be totally wrong.

Well, those aliens were able to come out of the paintings near the beginning of that episode.

OK, its been bugging me since I watched the episode.

The dead "feel" what is done to their bodies. Including cremation, the one who "donated his body to science" etc. Yet.... the cybermen have organic skeletons.

So are the bodies in two places at once? Do they manage to stop the cremations? Or are the organic skeletons not those of the original bodies?

I'm guessing that you keep feeling what your body feels until you press the disconnect button at which point you are free game to become a cyberman. And the bodies may not even get destroyed, it could just be the people making them think they are feeling like they are burning. A lie to get them to disconnect.