I give up... (VERY long and emotional)

[Jack T. Chance]

Uh, hauntedheadnc, that might have been just a little too much info there, bud.

Anyway... having had more time to collect my thoughts, here's a little bit better description of what I'm feeling right now. Over the last couple months, an opportunity had presented itself for me to make some positive changes in my life and get it moving in the right direction again. A big part of that opportunity was that I had met someone online and begun dating her. I finally thought I had found what I've been searching for after all these years. I let myself believe that I might actually get to make a fresh start here, after so many years of failing to do so. I foolishly let myself think that this time would be different, but I suppose I should have known better. It didn't work out, and that piled on top of all the other things going on in my life just proved to be the final straw.

Life has once again sent me the message loud and clear, and it has finally sunk in. I don't get to be like other people, I don't get to be "normal". I don't get to start over, don't get to change my lot in life. I don't get to have the things that other people have and take for granted. It's not allowed. I am cursed, and doomed to suffer my fate, whether I like it or not. So, there's no point in even trying anymore. There's no point in picking myself back up and putting myself back out there when all I ever get for my trouble is more pain. So, lesson learned. I give up. There's no fight left in me anymore. I doubt I'll ever recover from this depression, but if I do, it will take a very long time. And it'll be a cold day in Hell before I ever again trust a woman enough to open my heart to her. No good ever comes of that.

[Giggle Goose]

Uh, hauntedheadnc, that might have been just a little too much info there, bud.

I actually thought it was quite touching. He was only trying to help.

And it'll be a cold day in Hell before I ever again trust a woman enough to open my heart to her. No good ever comes of that.

What if you meet someone that would actually appreciate and RECIPROCATE that? You might let something really great pass you by. Or you could get shafted again. Who knows? Love is a high-stakes risk in my eyes.

I've been reading this, and I know that you're in a very dark place right now and whatever anyone says isn't going to make it better. That's why I haven't responded yet. Right now, I DO have some of those things that you have mentioned, and while I'm young I do believe I've worked hard for them. I've also loved with my whole heart even after being burned numerous times. I also don't take my blessings for granted, and I realize that they could be taken away from me any second. But why dwell on it? I'm not any better than you because I "get" to have the things you've mentioned. Even after I was used and abused, I knew I HAD to be worth more than how I was being treated. Not to repeat what everyone else is saying, but they're absolutely right: no one will love you until you learn to love yourself.

[Jack T. Chance]

I actually thought it was quite touching. He was only trying to help.

I know he was, I was just... surprised that he chose to reveal some of the things he revealed. If I'd been through what he's been through, I don't know that I'd reveal all of that on a public forum. But different strokes for different folks, I guess.

What if you meet someone that would actually appreciate and RECIPROCATE that? You might let something really great pass you by.

I'll cross that bridge IF I come to it. But I have serious doubts that I'll ever be so lucky again. Even if I DO manage to find someone like that, she's going to have to prove herself worthy of my trust, and it's now apparent to me that I've been too trusting, so she'd likely have a tough road ahead of her in that regard.

Or you could get shafted again. Who knows? Love is a high-stakes risk in my eyes.

True. And unfortunately for me, some people aren't willing to take that risk.

I've been reading this, and I know that you're in a very dark place right now and whatever anyone says isn't going to make it better. That's why I haven't responded yet. Right now, I DO have some of those things that you have mentioned, and while I'm young I do believe I've worked hard for them. I've also loved with my whole heart even after being burned numerous times. I also don't take my blessings for granted, and I realize that they could be taken away from me any second. But why dwell on it? I'm not any better than you because I "get" to have the things you've mentioned. Even after I was used and abused, I knew I HAD to be worth more than how I was being treated. Not to repeat what everyone else is saying, but they're absolutely right: no one will love you until you learn to love yourself.

And that's the part no one seems to understand, probably because I haven't come out and said it. Until this weekend, I was in a really good place, in spite of losing my job in April in the midst of the worst recession in decades. For the last few years, I HAVE been able to love myself and accept that I was a good person, doing the best he can. I felt good enough about myself this time to do something I've never been able to do in the past: make the first move. In the past, the women I've been involved with always let me know that they were interested before I'd managed to work up enough courage to let them know that I felt the same way. They'd always been the ones to make the first move. This time, I had enough self-confidence to make that first move. And in spite of that fact, I've still failed. So, I honestly don't know what to do anymore. Like I said before, no matter what I do, it's never good enough. I really don't know what else to say.

[Red_Dazes]

I may not be in the best spot to offer truly valuable advice... I'm not even past my mid twenties yet. But I have lived though some unbelievable bull shit in the last several years, a lot of it I still can't even talk about.

Just three years ago I sat in my bedroom while my mom was out of town, holding the pistol my father left us when he died. With a love letter and apology note sitting on my desk. Things had fallen so far for me I really couldn't see anything getting better. I didn't trust anyone, I had been betrayed and hurt so many times that I didn't think I could ever recover enough to trust or love again. I was an out cast in life and school, my 'friends' and teachers and even my own family alienated me because I was different. I was always sad, every day. Alone and scared. I had been able to lift myself up and out of the darkness up until that day. I just quit, completely gave up, I couldn't even cry anymore, I was just used up.
Then the phone rang... I went to answer it... just in case it was my mom checking up on me. It turned out it was just a telemarketer. But as I was walking back to my room I accidentally knocked an old photo album on the floor. When I picked it up a picture of my father fell out. And I remembered something he used to say to me when I was growing up.

"Life is tough all over. But when you fall down, no mater what, you have to get up. Take your time getting your feet. Brush your self off and try again. It's not about coming out on top Red, or about being happy all the time. It's about finding the little things that make you happy, even once in a while, and never letting go of that feeling in that moment. And never quit trying to find another one."

... I'm still not alright all the time. I still get depressed, I still cry almost every other day. And god knows I still think sometimes that it would have better to give up... But I haven't, even though I've wanted to, because giving up is admitting defeat... and I just can't stand the thought of that.

*sigh* long winded... I guess in the end **HUGS** And know that you aren't the only person who feels this way, you maybe the only one who has the EXACT circumstances, but the feeling... we understand. And while no one can really pull you out of it except you, we are here for you if you need a hand up.

[wagegoth]

Life has once again sent me the message loud and clear, and it has finally sunk in. I don't get to be like other people, I don't get to be "normal".

THERE IS NO NORMAL. That's bullshit. It's the story advertisers use to sell you crap; it's the story the government uses to get you to conform; it's the story the media uses to get you to follow their lead.

My older son and I apparently fall on the autism spectrum, at the higher end. So we have our issues. There's a male coworker who is much more aural than visual, than the average man. We get along great, apparently because we sort of meet in the middle. There is not one person I work with that could be considered normal. They're above average in intelligence, have mental issues that don't fall under normal but they have learned to make work for them, are gifted in some way, have made some good choices, have made some bad choices, etc.

I don't get to start over, don't get to change my lot in life. I don't get to have the things that other people have and take for granted. It's not allowed. I am cursed, and doomed to suffer my fate, whether I like it or not. So, there's no point in even trying anymore. There's no point in picking myself back up and putting myself back out there when all I ever get for my trouble is more pain. So, lesson learned. I give up. There's no fight left in me anymore. I doubt I'll ever recover from this depression, but if I do, it will take a very long time.

Personally, I don't believe the Universe cares that much about us as individuals. It's got much better things to do than curse someone. Now, if you want to believe in fate, get a Chinese life horoscope done. They'll tell you which decades will be your most successful. Then you can curse fate if you want.

I have been diagnosed as chronically depressed. Most of the meds don't work for me, and the one that did caused a serious physical problem that forced me off of it. Some days it really is a fight to do anything. I really do understand how you feel.

As to your job history: you describe yourself as a pariah, but you've successfully held jobs in retail management, which is about as unpariahish as you can get. Retail managers have to be able to handle employees and customers, a truly difficult situation. I've done it and I don't anymore, for good reason. Are you only looking for jobs in retail? Have you tried transferring your experience and skills to another field? Being able to successfully manage people and a business does not limit you to retail. If you've decided you hate retail, then start looking at certificate programs for other fields. I know two people who are working successfully but are studying to be x-ray techs. They both believe that a healthcare position working with patients, but not nursing, is a good fit, and completely different from the work they do now.

And it'll be a cold day in Hell before I ever again trust a woman enough to open my heart to her. No good ever comes of that.

So you've gone out with women and it didn't work. Have you ever analyzed the women you choose to go out with? Are you basically dating the same woman serially, with variations in her appearance? Counseling can help you with that.

My personal suggestion is that you quit actively looking for love. Cutenoob is absolutely right about the DO NOT SHOULD. You can make a schedule of expectations, but that doesn't mean they'll happen on schedule. The girl you're looking to marry is also a human being. She has needs and wants and maybe a schedule of her own. She probably has a job, maybe even a career. Maybe she would be the perfect fit for you, but what if she doesn't want the white picket fence, two kids and a dog dream? What would you do? Would you give up all or part of the dream to be with her? How much are your expectations interfering with you moving forward with your life? How many times have your expectations screwed up friendships and relationships and jobs? Be honest. I'll bet it's a lot.

There's nothing wrong with goals. Goals are good. Goals are important. Expectations, now, they can be killers.


So, get some counseling. I don't know if you have health insurance, which will affect what you can get, but if you are unable to work or look for work because of depression, depending on your state, you may be able to get disability. You should be able to obtain some help through state agencies. Look into medication. Sometimes the right medicine can be like a bolt of lightning.


And talk to the people who offered to chat here. There's an awful lot of good people on this board who would be happy to help.

[Antisocial_Worker]

I know he was, I was just... surprised that he chose to reveal some of the things he revealed. If I'd been through what he's been through, I don't know that I'd reveal all of that on a public forum. But different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Fact of the matter is, I've lived an unbelievably brutal life thus far. Probably, the only Americans who have had it worse than me are kids who ended up in foster care. However, the point is, if I can live that kind of life and still end up in a good place, just about anyone can. And, if I think it will help, I will cheerfully whip the cloth off this entire ugly painting that is my life and let you see it. Life's too short for modesty sometimes.

[Rapscallion]

I know he was, I was just... surprised that he chose to reveal some of the things he revealed.

Interestingly enough, I recognised a fair number of the things HauntedHeadnc put in there from previous posts - bits here and there rather than in one post, but a fair amount of that was already in the public domain.

Rapscallion

[Der Cute]

Jack,

1. You have depression. I can hear it from your postings. It doesn't sound like a "blah me day" it sounds like dysthymia, a low level underlying depression. Where the baseline of happiness is lower than general public's.

2. You're feeling sorry for yourself. OK, that's legit. After a day of "woe is me"-ness, get off your ass and do something ELSE! Sweety, because I'm so weird, I piss people off easily. I'm an east-coast personality in the hold-your-hand-wipe-yo-ass temperment area of the NW. I do.NOT.FIT. here. So I lose jobs. A lot. I lose job. I feel crappy for 24 hours (my deal with myself) and then say, FUCK IT, let's go.

3. As I said before: you have a list of achievements you're holding yourself to. With time constraints. THE UNIVERSE HAS A DIFFERENT CLOCK!!!!! You can set goals. That's great. But put a catch in those goals: If something happens to set me back, I will accept it and move on.
Example: I wanted to finish college by 30yrs old. I was doing great. Everything was going according to plan. Something happened and I almost committed suicide - my anti depressant stopped working, and I slid into the ditch. I had to drop a class or 2. Those Classes were not available for 12 more months!! AAAAAARG! I had to say, Fuckit, this it out of my control, and I need to get back on track before I can bitch about missing my grad goal.
Now that I look back at it? Pfeh, a bump in the road. I don't care that I missed it by a whole year! ZOMG I'm running around screaming ZOMG It's a HUUUUUGE DEAL /sarcasm No. Not even close.

I liked a guy. So much I wanted to marry him. He had what I wanted in a man, plus some flaws I could deal with. I loved him so much I waited for 5 years for him. He was overseas, on a different continent. I passed up many men locally because I wanted that guy. I said I'd wait.

Finally, straw came and broke camel's back.

I had a few good cries, a lot of god damn you sob's and what the fuck was I doing sessions. (NOTE TO YOU; THE DEAL IS ONE SELF KICK PER FUCKUP...FOR LIFE)
So I said, you know, it's been a LOOONG time since I've ....ahem..dated. Went to craigslist.

I'm now happy, with my honey, we met there. Been together for 6 mos now, and I can see that he LOVES me. For who/what I am, all my faults and shit.

But did this fall under my own "get married and have family by 35" goal? Nope.
I'm 34, but it won't happen by then.

Is that so bad? Nope.

Honey, go get some counseling. You're not crazy. You're just a bit messed up upstairs. Go find out if your chemicals in your brain are imbalanced. Work with the physical part, THYROID ALSO!! and then once those have been tuned up/tweaked, work on the mental you. It helps. A lot. A lot lot.

PM if you have questions.

Cutenoob

[JoitheArtist]

I haven't chimed in here yet, but I agree with what some of the others are saying.

1. Get checked for depression. I know that when I was looking into getting a diagnosis, I really really REALLY did not want to do it. Depression will do that to you; it's sneaky, it tries to hide, tries to say it's something else. But seriously, if a small pill will help you get a floor under your feet, so to speak, it's worth doing. It helped me enormously.

2. I completely agree with what CuteNoob said about goals. Not that there's anything wrong with having them; everyone does, or should. But know when the goals need to change. Check your bearings. Sometimes, it's enough just to have goals about the kind of person you want to be: not related to jobs, relationships, income, or anything else. I haven't met my original goals for this point of my life, either. I wanted, and wanted SO BADLY, to be married, and to be in a house of my own, with a family of my own. I had to give up that goal: it's never going to happen. And I've made my peace with that. But I *have* been able to move much forward in my goal of becoming a person who doesn't grumble. I saw my parents always grumbling, decided I didn't want to become like that, and try to watch myself. I'm moving towards that goal because it's the one completely under my control. Any goal that relies on something external carries the inherent risk of failure--again, not that that's a bad thing. Risky things are well worth doing. But failure is definitely a risk there. Maybe it's time to set some goals that are more about being than doing, if that makes any sense.

But the main thing I wanted to say is that I really truly hope things go better for you soon, and you'll be in my thoughts.

[sms001]

Life has once again sent me the message loud and clear, and it has finally sunk in. I don't get to be like other people, I don't get to be "normal". I don't get to start over, don't get to change my lot in life.

Seconds or thirds or whatever we're up to on seeking some pro advice.

But I like to chime in with two points. I started a new life about nine years ago at the age of thirty-nine. Completely unexpected, unplanned, and nearly a 180 from my previous life.

The second is to address the quote above. I know it seems that way (I've felt it myself) but you simply CAN NOT personify "Life." "It" is not out to get you. It may seem that way when you add up all the bad breaks, but even the most downtrodden, out on his luck, beaten back person in the world (which isn't you, btw.) has not had some mystical force bearing on them. Some of the factors that make it feel that way are our own faults. Some are the fault of the people we involve ourselves with. And some are just random/ bad luck/ coincidence.

Please don't give in or give up Jack. Heck, I just saw today that you are in Maryland, which is where I grew up. I was looking forward to finding out more about it through you over the years on this board.

[Jester]

A comment on "normal."

Normal is BORING. Do you really want to be average, normal, just like everyone else? I know I don't. People remember me, and I LIKE that. And not everyone remembers me in a positive way, either, but I'm okay with that, as I realized a long time ago that no matter what you do, not everyone is going to like you. And I am just fine with that.

I know what you're thinking. "But I want what everyone else has." There is nothing wrong with wanting that part of "normal." Nothing at all. But don't make these goals of yours the be all and end all of your existence.

I don't get to be like other people, I don't get to be "normal". I don't get to start over, don't get to change my lot in life. I don't get to have the things that other people have and take for granted. It's not allowed. I am cursed, and doomed to suffer my fate, whether I like it or not. So, there's no point in even trying anymore. There's no point in picking myself back up and putting myself back out there when all I ever get for my trouble is more pain.

Oh, please! Seriously? Really? You don't "get" to be like other people? You don't "get" to do this or that? You are "not allowed"?

My ass.

Dude, you "get" to do what you decide to do. There is no mystical force holding you back, deciding, "Hey, let's fuck with Jack T. Chance, let's keep him from achieving that which he wants, let's make his life miserable." There is no such force preventing you from achieving your goals or aspirations (unless, of course, you are the Buffalo Bills--but that's another story). The only entity preventing such a thing is....YOU.

I know, you didn't bankrupt your company, you didn't dump yourself, etc., etc. I get that. But this whole "I don't get to be normal" bitchfest is just utterly ridiculous. And don't get me wrong, we've all been there at some point...but we've all also realized after a bit of it that, okay, enough crying, time to get up off my ass and make things happen.

You cannot win a race if you are sitting in the bleachers crying about how you never win a race, so why bother running? The majority of great achievers in history went through a lot of great failure first.

Now I understand that in all likelihood you are suffering from clinical depression, and it is not simply a matter of "dude, snap out of it." I get that, and I get (and have said) that you need to get professional help. But that does not lessen or mitigate the ridiculousness of the above pity party you are throwing yourself.

I repeat: the only person you can allow or disallow you from achieving your goals is YOU.

And it'll be a cold day in Hell before I ever again trust a woman enough to open my heart to her. No good ever comes of that.

Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. And furthermore, bullshit.

Look, I have had a few relationships in my time. And I have had some serious dry spells. Entire calendar years of dry spells, thank you very much! And I have been burnt by women. Not just burn in the sense of being dumped or cheated on, mind you, but burnt as in manipulated by a con artist user who was not only the worst girlfriend I ever had and one of the worst people I ever met, but who ended up as a convicted felon for some of her more under-handed manipulations. And I have often said that I am happy that I got involved with her in my 30s rather than earlier in life, because had she been one of my earlier experiences, I very well could have become horribly jaded towards women in general.

So, did I whine and cry and stamp my feet? You bet your ass I did. But after a bit of that and more than a few beers, I moved the fuck on. I had fun. I enjoyed life, even without a woman to share it with, although if you talk to anyone who knows me at all, they will tell you that I am a romantic and I definitely want a woman in my life, someone to share my life with, a companion, etc, etc.

And so now I have one. I have a girlfriend. Yes, she's a girlfriend that happens to live 2600 miles away, in my home town that I want to move to but, due to financial issues, can't yet, and probably can't for another year. And yes, she's a girlfriend that comes with baggage, not just children, but emotional issues. And yes, there are times when both of us question the wisdom of being involved with someone almost an entire continent away. But I still view it as a positive, a positive that I hope will continue once I finally do find my way home. A positive that never would have happened if I had just shut down and given up because I was sick of getting burnt.

So you made a play and got jacked. As Nazareth sang, "love hurts." But pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move the fuck on.

Seriously.

[protege]

Normal is BORING. Do you really want to be average, normal, just like everyone else? I know I don't. People remember me, and I LIKE that. And not everyone remembers me in a positive way, either, but I'm okay with that, as I realized a long time ago that no matter what you do, not everyone is going to like you. And I am just fine with that.

I second that. Pardon my French, but "normal" fucking sucks. "Normal" people are the most boring on the planet. Screw that, I'd rather be "naturally goofy." I'm not afraid to be who I am. Can't handle it, or don't like it? Tough shit, and fuck you. I'm not changing who/what I am for anyone. Deal with it, or go away.

Sorry if I'm a bit blunt. But, I did take plenty of shit for it...and just wanted it to go away. Then I realized that attempting to be "normal" was even worse, and simply not worth it.

I also realized that most of the "normal" people...were actually similar to sheep. That is, they looked pretty much the same, wore the same styles of clothes, etc. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not a damn sheep. I have my own style and can think for myself

As such, I tend to stand out a bit, and quite a few times, people seem to be drawn to me. Ironic, since when I attempted to be "normal," I got the opposite reaction...

[Geek King]

I'm with Jester on this one.

Jack, life ain't fair. You probably know this, but you don't understand it. Sure, you may have some clinical depression, but you let your mindset multiply it. Get off your dufus and go for a run--not a damn jog, RUN DAMMIT!! I'll wait til you get back.

...

If you actually did it, you should be feeling a bit better. All those lovely chemicals exercise produces help offset those nasty depression chemicals. Go running or find a punchingbag to to some heavy cardio exercise on. It will help raise your spirits. Many psychologists believe emotional depression is a reflection of anger. Work it out on something less destructive than yourself.

Next, you're going to stop dwelling on this "1-step-forward-2-steps-back" crap. You think you've got it tough? I went to school for computer programming. PASCAL and C were my tools. I worked my ass off to get through in four years, and all the loans were in my name. Six months before I graduated, the entire world of programming jumped on to Object-Oriented programming languages like Visual Basic and C++. Pop! I graduate with obsolete knowledge and big loan debt. I was right fucked.

So I go looking and get a job as a program tester. While doing that, I work my ass off nights earning a real MCSE certification and finally transfer to the server support group. I was making 35k/yr, and happy with my work. Then some ass up the corperate ladder fucks up his half of the company, and I'm laid off by virtue of being the newest guy in the department. Right in the middle of the dot-bomb era. Well fuck.

Two months later, 9/11 happens. Job fairs now start to state specifically that no computer-related jobs will be offered, don't bother coming. Double Fuck.

I get tired staring at the apartment walls not even getting hits on my resume, so I get a job at Odd Lots. Minimum wage and really hard work. Then I move on to an eyeglass factory for a buck more an hour. Then back to the amusement park I worked as a kid. Then to the print factory where I worked for three gruelling years loading paper and cleaning presses on 12-hour shifts. Each step I made a little more money, got some more good references, and beat the hell out of a gym punching bag.

Finally, after five years out of my chosen profession, a fellow named Mark took a chance and hired me into an IT position. I was rusty, but worked hard to impress the hell out of him (He still e-mails me now and then to see how things are going). It was rotten pay for the work (about 18k/year. A pitance for what I was doing compared to the going rate), but I needed that experience. Then the company got bought out and they turfed all the IT staff. I say thee fuck, and fuck again!

I put out all kinds of resumes this time. Interviews came and went, and I finally landed the job I have now. I will just say it is a good job, for good pay, and unlikely to go away anytime soon.

Relationship-wise, I've not had anything serious, and that kind of sucks sometimes, but I keep looking. I have built up a cadre of good friends and, while we don't always agree on things, we can argue and walk away friends. You've got to decide if you're the loner because you're afraid of losing your friends, or because your friends suck. Invite some over for to watch movies and MSTK3000 that parts that deserve it. Laugh. Sure you're still laid off tomarrow. But you're still alive, and can try again. Part of the onus of friendship is on you too. Reach out and join the group. You might find out they're fun to be around.


Now you kids get off my lawn!! Uphill! Both ways!

<\aging crank off>

Seriously Jack, you are so certain of failure that you give up without trying. Get out there and do something. You may have to move to someplace where the market is better. DO it. Start working your ass off without sabotaging yourself. Yeah, it isn't always appreciated, but you can always look for something better while you put up with a lousy job. Nobody owes you anything. Not your bosses, not the government, and not some higher force. You have to prove yourself. Sometimes Everyday.

You get knocked down. That's life, no biggie. Get up, dust yourself off, and laugh like a madman while daring someone to knock you down again. You may not always win, but you make damn sure everyone knows you won't be beaten.

[seigus]

Jack, I have a friend who could have written your post about ten years ago; it sounded like I was listening to him all over again. Same concerns, same problems, same feelings about it all. EXACTLY. Why am I telling you this? To show you that you are not the unique being you think you are, crushed by an unfeeling universe. My friend is now doing a job he loves and is very successful at it. He was in the SAME BOAT. I'm not trying to discount what you're going through, just trying to point out that it's not unique. It happens to people all the time. But let's look at a couple of things.
You use the example of the companies you've worked for going bankrupt as proof the universe has it out for you - what about the people working for and owning those companies? Do you not see they were affected just as much as you were? The fact that you only see it in terms of how it affected YOU demonstrates to me part of your problem. You see the world in terms of yourself, and nothing more. No wonder you're depressed. The fact is, we're all on this ship, my friend. We're all caught in the web of trouble.
Have you asked your friends for advice on what social niceities you lack or need work on? Have you sought frank information on where you might be going wrong from people who know you? You need to work on self improvement - the world will not change for you. The change has to come from inside, and that's all there is to it. What to feel better? Want to feel like you matter? Go work in a soup kitchen. Go work with disadvantaged kids. Visit the elderly. Stop focusing on yourself and give the world some good, no matter what you think it's done to you. Take the reins, Jack. Help others, and watch yourself transform.

[sms001]

Good evening Jack!
What's up?