Very Complicated Situation.

[Jester]

Personally, I would love to see someone other than Fiance or Miss Stress get up in Superbitch's face and tell her what for.

I say other than Fiance or Miss Stress because we all know that if either of them did anything of the sort, Superbitch would twist it around and make them look bad to Dad. But if a third party did it, especially with Dad looking on, that would be Pure Awesome.

One way or another, Superbitch really needs a very public and very humiliating dressing down. She needs to be called on the carpet.

[Seshat]

Some of the signs of domestic abuse are present. Also, abuse need not be physical or sexual. But you're right, Jester. We don't know enough to assess whether she counts (yet?) as an abuser.

Additionally, there are stages in domestic abuse of (fully mentally capable) adults where the adult being abused has every opportunity to notice that 'something's really wrong here', and getting out. Being cut off from one's family and friends is a major red flag, and one of those critical signs. Having family and friends telling you to get the hell out is another.

However, regardless of whether or not Superbitch has reached the point of abusing, rather than "merely" manipulating Dad; resources for the families of the victims of domestic abuse can be helpful to both Miss Stress and her fiancee.

Miss Stress: I recommend checking out those resources. I think the odds are very high that Superbitch is a serial domestic-abuser, and your fiancee's father is her latest target. Either way, she's definitely a manipulative ass, and the people who help families of abuse victims are familiar with ways to help folks in your fiancee's situation.

[surreal20]

If i am correct, it IS considered illegal if someone gives you money for one thing, and you spend it on something else.

For example, a church raises funds to pay off a church van. The money goes to the person who has his name on the van. But somehow, the van is 6 months behind...O.o It turns out the owner of the chuch van was using the money for gambling at casinos. That would be considered illegal. There was no written contract, it was just understood that the money was for X and it went to Y.

that may or may not be a clear example...but i tried my best. As i said, it could be wrong. However, since there is no issue with that...my comments are just food for thought.

[Jester]

I believe this woman is abusing your fiance's father.

You will both find that some people are skeptical of a male being abused by a female. Ignore them, it happens.

I agree that men can be and are abused by women. I just don't believe this to be the case here. (Not in the general definition of abuse, as opposed to manipulating the fuck out of him.)

From Miss Stress's comments on the matter, it is my belief that Dad is easily manipulated, is insecure, and has low self-esteem. And I believe that Superbitch is playing on all of these. That being said, I also believe that Dad is a World Class Douchebag.

...it transpires that his father has concealed this gift from my fiance and intended to use it to buy premium bonds!

World. Class. Douchebag.

Now, were these premium bonds going to be in the name of Fiance or Dad? Or perhaps Superbitch? My money is on one of the second two.

I gotta say I feel pretty good about my choice. I stopped expecting my dad to be the dad he was.

I agree that for you and your situation, that was the right choice to make. However, I do not believe that it is wise or prudent to be counseling others in situations different from yours to accept as a blanket philosophy the idea of giving up hope and accepting things as they are just because it worked for you. Yes, the situations might be similar. But they are not the same, nor are the players.

And I should point out that you did not give up hope in general, just on the idea of your dad changing his ways. The way you said it in your original post, it made it sound like, in general, when things are fucked, stop hoping and move on. That is something that even my jaded ass can't accept. Sorry, but no.

wonder if the bitch partner knew about it and put the idea into his head. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, unfortunately.

It would not surprise me if she knew about it. Nor would it surprise me if she didn't. Although I am sure her influence could have pointed Dad in that direction even if she didn't know about the money.

But, unless Dad was planning to put that money into bonds specifically for Fiance, it is a pretty damn shitty thing to do to accept money from one person intended for another and keep it for yourself.

World. Class.

[Greenday]

No.

I agree that that is the easy way out. But oftentimes it is better to stay and fight then just give up hope. (And by "stay," I don't mean "stay in that house." In this case, it is figurative.)

I would rather hold on to hope and bear the pain of disappointment than to give up all hope and walk away with my soul bowed. For that pain, there is no cure. Because with every disappointment, hope springs eternal for what the future may yet bring.

There is always hope. Always.

I gotta say I feel pretty good about my choice. I stopped expecting my dad to be the dad he was. He was no longer that person. He still isn't. I'm at the point where I'm basically just friends with my dad. I know him and that's as much as I can hope for. It took my dad almost a decade to realize what he gave up. But things just won't be the same ever again. Now should I keep hope and let myself get emotionally down about it all the time? Or should I just realize it is what it is and not get worked up over it? Hm, I'm going to take the option that is healthy and not let myself get worked up over it, raising blood pressure, hurting my mental health.

[Miss_Stress]

I hope your fiancé has told his grandmother what happened. Hopefully the money is still available and if it's not then that is out and out theft.

The money is still available because she hasn't been to the bank and cleared it yet, thank goodness, so my fiance has stated his intention to put the money into a savings account. His grandmother will make sure that the money is put into my fiance's hands and no-one else's now.

[Dilorenzo]

Hopefully the money is still available and if it's not then that is out and out theft.

Sounds like that's kind of a gray area. Perhaps in a public but not a legal way? Or, of course, I could be completely wrong.

But regardless of legality it's a total dick move.

[Miss_Stress]

Thanks everyone I've shown my fiance this thread and he thanks you all too. I have another update - apparently my fiance's grandmother has decided to give him £1000, but he had no knowledge of any such money until his grandmother asked him what he was going to do with the money. So, he spoke to his father and it transpires that his father has concealed this gift from my fiance and intended to use it to buy premium bonds!

[Dilorenzo]

You will both find that some people are skeptical of a male being abused by a female. Ignore them, it happens.

Quoted for truth. Also abuse also does not mean, as many first assume, purely physical, though it can take that form as well in the female abuser relationship.

Of course, the only one who can do anything about it is his fiances father, as Seshat said. All fiance can do in that situation is try to help, offer to help, but he may find himself getting pushed away harder in that situation. The problem with these situations is everything in them is a double-edged sword surrounded by egg-shells and baby chickens.

[iradney]

Miss_Stress - I can only agree with previous posters. Fiance's Dad is unfortunately allowing SuperBitch to dictate his life. I find it VERY sad that someone would allow a third party to interfere with their relationship with their child, but some people are VERY persuasive and can completely take someone over without them realising it's happened.
Many hugs for you and for Fiance. It's gonna be a very tough time for the two of you, but I think this can also show Fiance how NOT to be a father when the two of you decide to start a family, KWIM?

[Seshat]

One other thing I'm seeing here: I believe this woman is abusing your fiance's father.

Warning signs of abuse

Abuse in general

Now, his father is an adult. Unless he's an elder who's no longer capable of making their own honest judgements, your fiance can't actually prevent this. If his father does come under the parameters for 'elder abuse', contact the local resources for abuse prevention: if nothing else, the police, or the local Lifeline or Salvation Army charities will be able to refer you to help.

If he's still fully compos mentis, you can't do anything to prevent the situation. However, you can certainly get support and advice - from the police, from support groups, from charities like Lifeline and the Salvation Army.

You will both find that some people are skeptical of a male being abused by a female. Ignore them, it happens.

[Jester]

Miss Stress, I've never faced anything like that, either. But I do have two advantages. The first is that I am not involved, which allows me to focus clearly on the problem. The second is that I've been kicking around longer than you (i.e., I'm an old fart), so I've had more experience for my mind to draw upon.

[Miss_Stress]

Thanks Jester, great advice as always it's hard to know what to do because I've never faced anything like this before.

[Jester]

I have a few comments here.

She is controlling of his dad to the point where his dad must ask permission to visit his other son - my fiance's brother. She has also stripped the house my fiance and his dad live in of all traces of my fiance's mother - photographs, possessions, everything.

This woman is an insecure needy control freak superbitch. Clearly she has issues. Her issues, however, are not the only problem.

My fiance's father is also starting to lie to him, and we suspect it is her doing.

Let' lay blame where it belongs, and in this case, the only one making your fiance's father lie is...your fiance's father. Sure, Superbitch is a manipulative wench. But Dad is an adult with free will, and makes his own choices. Clearly he is choosing to side with this turdstain of a woman over his own children. Is he being blinded by her to a great degree? Certainly. But no one is forcing him to lie to anyone, and these are not little white lies, either. These are clearly deceptions on his part--intentional deceptions. I don't absolve Superbitch of blame here, mind you. But Dad is no innocent in all of this, either.

his father's partner drove her previous ex-partner's daughters from their home, and promptly moved her daughters in. Now my fiance is worried that the same will happen to him.

Fiance's worry is well-founded. Superbitch clearly is following a time-tested pattern that has served her purposes. She will continue to do so, and unless Dad grows a spine and a scrotum, Fiance is going to find himself shown the door in short order. My suggestion is for him to start looking for a place pretty much NOW. Will it be tough? Yes. Will it be expensive? Yes. Will it be better than what he is going through now and what is coming? Yes, and yes.

his father's new partner is still insisting on moving in to the house, along with her daughter

She can insist all she wants. But if Dad doesn't let her, she can't do a damn thing. So once again, blame must fall at least partially on Dad if this happens. No one can make him do something against his will.

She has also pressured his father into an engagement, despite the fact they have known each other for less than a year and his father is yet to divorce his mother.

Length of time known and current marital status has never prevented people from getting engaged.

This new partner has also threatened to kill my fiance's mother if she sets foot near the house, the house that my fiance's mother currently still owns half of.

A good point. That house is currently legally owned by Mom and Dad. NOT by Superbitch. If Mom wants to, she can probably legally prevent Superbitch from moving in, or at least making it damn hard for her to do so. I am sure her lawyer, if he is worth his salt, has a few ideas on the subject.

But as Dad also owns half the house, in the end, at least until the house is sold, he probably will be able to get Superbitch in, if he wants. Once again, a good share of blame if this happens goes on Dad's shoulders.

Also, if this woman makes any direct threats to Mom or actually goes to harm or intimidate her, Mom should immediately contact the police. I know someone that this very thing happened to, and in that case the husband and new partner were both cops...with guns. Made quite a splash in the local papers down here. And in the legal system.

She has said that my fiance's mother cannot see her own son, something which has upset my fiance greatly as not only is he an adult, but he misses his mother very much and finds it very galling that some woman is trying to stop his mother visiting him at home.

Fiance is an adult. Which means he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
Mom is an adult who owns half the house. Which means she can go there whenever the fuck she wants, unless there is a court order or restraining order preventing her from doing so.
Superbitch has no legal right to control who comes and goes at that property.
Dad, of course, does have that legal right.
However, even if Dad says Mom can't come to the house, and Mom listens (or the legal system sides with Dad), that would not prevent Fiance from seeing Mom. It would merely prevent Fiance from seeing Mom at that house. What, they can't meet elsewhere? In Mom's new digs? In public? At other relatives' places?
Pardon my bluntness, but if Fiance honestly believes that he can't see his Mom simply because Superbitch says Mom can't come to the house, Fiance, like his father, needs to grow a pair.

My fiance is feeling very upset about the situation, as he feels he is no longer welcome in his own home.

He isn't. That is the absolute fact of the matter. Superbitch is wrapping her tentacles around Dad, and is ridding Dad of the remnants of his life with Mom. And that, of course, includes Fiance and his brother.

The sooner Fiance finds his own place, or another place, or moves in with Mom, or any other place but that increasingly toxic house, the better it will be for him on all counts.

He has tried to speak to his father, who has not yet listened to anyone about it.

"Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." Those are the words of Yoda that I so often quote. And for not the first time, they have more wisdom than that of a simple movie quote. Fiance should not try to speak. He should simply speak. Make his voice heard. Force Dad to LISTEN TO HIM. Corner dear old Dad and say, look, man, we HAVE TO TALK. NOW. And don't brook any interference from Superbitch. Better yet, corner Dad when Superbitch is not around, as honestly, she would find a way to turn that situation to her advantage.

Either way, with Superbitch present or not, Fiance's talk with Dad will probably not result in anything. But to not speak his thoughts, to not tell Dad what the hell is going on, what he sees happening, would be as wrong as anything Superbitch has done. It would be admitting defeat to this waste of a fertilized egg, admitting that she is right. Not only in general, mind you, but in the eyes of Dad, it would be a tacit admission by Fiance that Superbitch is right.

Hell, the best situation would be for both sons to corner Dad alone and make him listen to what they have to say. And SAY it. Like an adult. Man to man. Make him HEAR them, even if he won't LISTEN.

He won't listen to other members of the family, and my fiance fears that it won't be long before he is driven out too, as well as his relationship with his father breaking down completely.

A keen and accurate observation by Fiance. Now he just has to do something about it. (I.e., move out and speak to his dad with his brother, as detailed above.)

I am at a loss as to what to do to help.

Honestly, there is nothing you can do directly. Well, short of running over Superbitch, and as tempting as that may be, it probably won't out well for you in the long run. (But feel free to imagine it. Vividly. In color. And slow motion. It will make you feel a lot better, I promise you.)

But be there for your fiance. Let him know you care, that you are there for him, and let him know what you think he should do. Let him know what you think he CAN do. Help him to see that he can empower himself. Help him to see himself as a man fighting for what's right, rather than a boy losing his father.

Your fiancé is right - he's not welcome at his own home any more and it's all the new partner's doing.

No. As I said above, there are two people at fault here....Superbitch and Dad. I think I explained myself on this point eloquently enough above, so I shall not repeat my point.

The new partner is a clingy, needy bitch with control issues and will stop at nothing to get what she wants.

Quoted for absolute truth and clarity.

But yea, the sooner you give up hope, the sooner it stops hurting.

No.

I agree that that is the easy way out. But oftentimes it is better to stay and fight then just give up hope. (And by "stay," I don't mean "stay in that house." In this case, it is figurative.)

I would rather hold on to hope and bear the pain of disappointment than to give up all hope and walk away with my soul bowed. For that pain, there is no cure. Because with every disappointment, hope springs eternal for what the future may yet bring.

There is always hope. Always.

[Miss_Stress]

I don't suppose his brother or mother have space for him, even for 'until you and he are ready to live together'?

His mum has said she will take him if the situation continues to deteriorate further, and I know that if he was ever evicted by this partner that his mum would let him stay with her he just doesn't want to have his relationship with his father destroyed.

Something else happened last night - she had her grandson over and let him go into the hallway unattended - where my fiance's used diabetic needles are kept in a yellow tub! Luckily the child (and he is another rant altogether, let's just say I didn't like him when I saw him kick my fiance's very old cat) wasn't hurt because he didn't go near them, but she went mad and shouted, and the basic gist of the rant was "how dare he have diabetes!" She didn't say those words but she may as well have.