Doctor Who Discussion [Spoiler Zone!]

[KatherineB]

Random observation that just now hit me.

Back during "A Good Man Goes to War," Rory goes to try to pick up River from the Stormcage Prison, and we get this conversation.

Rory: Rory: I've come from the Doctor too.
River: Yes, but at a different point in time.
Rory: Unless there's two of them.
River: Now... that's a whole different birthday.

When did we get two multiple Doctors? The 50th Anniversary Special, of course.

Jay, there was also this mini-episode. Two Elevens, what's more.

And I do agree with you that Tasha Lem is just River all over again.

I think Missy is/will be a dark version of the TARDIS, most likely influenced by the Time Lords, since I refuse to believe they will let the Doctor get away with his freebie new regenerations without extracting some sort of payment.

[AccountingDrone]

Very logically laid out.

I just seem to think it is someone new from his past that we have either not yet met, or have met but in a very peripheral way. I know the actress seems familiar for some reason.

[Jester]

Everyone else has piped in on their theory about Missy, so I'm gonna pipe in on mine.

I don't believe it can be the Tardis. It would have referred to The Doctor as "my thief," or same variant thereof.

I don't believe it is River Song, either. She has many phrases for The Doctor--"my sweetie," "my husband," "my love," "my lover," my Doctor"--but "my boyfriend" has never, to my recall, been one of them.

It can't be Donna. Because, well, no. At best, she'd refer to him as "my spaceman." If she were being charitable.

It can't be Amy Pond. Rory is her boyfriend, lover, and husband, period.

It can't be Martha Jones. A brief crush does not a psycho girlfriend make. And it's just all wrong for her.

It can't be Tasha Lem. Too playful.

It can't be Captain Jack Harkness. Not playful enough. And no history there.

It can't be Madam Kevorian. Too positive, light, and non-evil or threatening.

That leaves to me only two possibilities, at least since the reboot (Nine on), as I am completely in the dark when it comes to the original series and the first Eight.

Possibility #1: It's Clara, in some form. "I'm not your boyfriend." "No, you're not." Methinks the lady doth protest too much. She clearly thought of Eleven as kinda her boyfriend. Otherwise, why would he mention it? Why would she so readily agree?

Now, that may be the most logical choice, but I don't think it's right. My theory is coming way out of left field. And may be a bit hard for some to swallow, but I'm gonna go with it anyway. And that is.....

Rose Tyler. Along with River Song, one of the two closest love interests The Doctor's had. Someone who could realistically refer to The Doctor as her boyfriend. Someone who was left with a clone of Ten to live with AS her boyfriend (presumably). Someone who could conceivably have gone crazy. Someone the show's writers bring back almost as often as the Daleks.

Short of some minor acquaintance, some cray cray villain, or someone from the original run, my money's on the chavette shop girl.

[Moirae]

I didn't like the episode much. It felt like it was going nowhere. With 9, 10, and 11, you had an indication of their personalities before the show ended. Not with this one. We don't have a clue who this man is.

As usually, I really didn't like Clara. But then, the only two episodes she was good in were the ones before she became an official companion. She's kind of just along for the ride as an official companion and its frustrating.

Love the fact that Vastra and Jenni kissed. Great idea and probably a first too.

I'm not sure who Missy is, but I have a hunch she's the Tardis or River Song in a future form.

[Andrew B.]

Has anyone given thought to the idea that Missy could be The Rani? That was my first thought.

[Jay 2K Winger]

Random observation that just now hit me.

Back during "A Good Man Goes to War," Rory goes to try to pick up River from the Stormcage Prison, and we get this conversation.

Rory: Rory: I've come from the Doctor too.
River: Yes, but at a different point in time.
Rory: Unless there's two of them.
River: Now... that's a whole different birthday.

When did we get two multiple Doctors? The 50th Anniversary Special, of course.

[Kheldarson]

And an interesting review and thread discussion from Howard Taylor:

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/blog...#disqus_thread

[Kheldarson]

I'm not too happy with Clara's reaction to this. She knows all about the Doctor's regeneration process and she's been watching the Doctor for centuries through all his regenerations. So her reaction to 12 doesn't make any sense to me, and I think she's being rather pissy about the whole thing. A shame, I actually like Clara (but I miss Amy and Rory).

Well, even if she knows all that, which Doctor does she actually know and is majorly involved in? Most of the others, we got the impression that she was just a passing moment in his story. But 11, now, he was her friend. And now he's gone. True, not really dead, as the Doctor is still there, but everything that made him the man she thought of when the name is mentioned is gone. Replaced by somebody who couldn't even keep her straight for a while.

Wouldn't you be in a mourning period?

[Jay 2K Winger]

Right. He was killed at Demon's Run, but Vastra brought him back to life. His brains are a bit more scrambled even for a Sontaran. I love his dynamic, too. Makes the show very interesting.

Strax didn't die. He just fainted.

How do you figure that?

Watch "The Time of the Doctor" again and listen to Tasha Lem's dialog. Every one of her lines could easily have been spoken by River Song. She's a capable female paramour of the Doctor's, and she's capable of piloting the TARDIS. She's basically River Song in all but name.

I'm not too happy with Clara's reaction to this. She knows all about the Doctor's regeneration process and she's been watching the Doctor for centuries through all his regenerations. So her reaction to 12 doesn't make any sense to me, and I think she's being rather pissy about the whole thing. A shame, I actually like Clara (but I miss Amy and Rory).

We don't know how many of Clara's multitude of lives she remembers. She was aware of them while she was still in the Doctor's timestream at Trenzalore in his grave, but who's to say she remembers them after she got out of it.

[Javarod]

And baby The TARDIS has a translation function.

A moot point, i mean the Doctor has already demonstrated that he speaks horse and baby, why should dinosaur be surprising?

[KabeRinnaul]

One of 10's companions (the white dumpy one, can't remember her name), when they visted Pompeii, she tried speaking to the Romans in Latin . . . they thought she was speaking Celtic.

That was Donna, my pick for best of the modern companions (Jack doesn't really count). They thought she was speaking Celtic because she wasn't speaking Latin properly, but instead quoting a famous line (in this case, "Veni, vidi, vici") and mangling the pronunciation.

If she'd actually been fluent in Latin and was actually trying to communicate something, they'd probably find her speech very heavily accented, but understandable.

[Sapphire Silk]

That's Vastra. She's an ancient dinosaur/reptilian race that the Doctor faced and came to a compromise with. She's helping prepare for the day the rest of her race returns, per agreement.

The Silurians. Who won't reappear for another 150 years at the least. She's married to Jenny Flint, the maid. I LOVE their dynamic, and this episode didn't disappoint.

That's Strax. He's a Sontaran who's paying a debt off to the Doctor. So he's no longer a warrior but a Nurse.

Right. He was killed at Demon's Run, but Vastra brought him back to life. His brains are a bit more scrambled even for a Sontaran. I love his dynamic, too. Makes the show very interesting.

And baby The TARDIS has a translation function.

Right. And it affects anyone who travels with the Doctor. That's why his Companions always understand the languages of the people they visit. One of 10's companions (the white dumpy one, can't remember her name), when they visted Pompeii, she tried speaking to the Romans in Latin . . . they thought she was speaking Celtic.

I'd agree, but I think it's been solidly established that River's regenerations went thus:

Baby Melody/1969 Girl in Spacesuit -> Mels -> River Song

And then she used up all of her regenerations to save the Doctor's life.

Let me add, River is now an electronic being in the Library Database. She was able to project herself to Trenzalore via Clara, but the Doctor was able to see her and communicate with her. There's a hint she's not quite done with the Doctor, which is totally cool to me. River Song is one of my favorite characters ever!

(And let's not even touch on the fact that Tasha Lem from the same episode is basically Pope River Song.)

How do you figure that?


As for 12, I cautiously like him. He wasn't the instant hit Matt Smith was with me. His behaviors don't seem unusual for a Doctor as he goes through the regeneration and stabilizes.

I'm not too happy with Clara's reaction to this. She knows all about the Doctor's regeneration process and she's been watching the Doctor for centuries through all his regenerations. So her reaction to 12 doesn't make any sense to me, and I think she's being rather pissy about the whole thing. A shame, I actually like Clara (but I miss Amy and Rory).

[Stormraven]

My own theory about who gave Clara the telephone #, and who ran the ad is Clara herself. Remember, she's in every one of his timelines - and she has to be, or he doesn't continue, so she makes sure they meet, then makes sure she's there to help him through his regen.

As for Missy, I've seen many competing theories. Currently, in my mind, the Master is leading, as Missy could be a hidden form of 'Mistress', but I don't think we have nearly enough evidence yet.

[Jay 2K Winger]

Would depend on where she is chronologically and what her game is, wouldn't it?

I'd agree, but I think it's been solidly established that River's regenerations went thus:

Baby Melody/1969 Girl in Spacesuit -> Mels -> River Song

And then she used up all of her regenerations to save the Doctor's life.

Either way, she's probably going to hit the same character archetype as River because Moffat doesn't seem capable of helping himself there >.<

I agree that Moffat seems incapable of letting go. River's story is pretty neatly wrapped up, I think, following "The Wedding of River Song." The mystery of who she is was answered, and after "The Time of the Doctor," even the mystery of The Silence were was answered. (And let's not even touch on the fact that Tasha Lem from the same episode is basically Pope River Song.)

[Kheldarson]

I can see where people are coming from with the whole Missy = River Song angle, except if Missy were River, she wouldn't refer to the Doctor as "my boyfriend." (They got married, remember.)

Would depend on where she is chronologically and what her game is, wouldn't it?

Either way, she's probably going to hit the same character archetype as River because Moffat doesn't seem capable of helping himself there >.<

I've also seen theories elsewhere that Missy is supposed to be some aspect of the TARDIS, perhaps spun off as a result of escaping her own supposed death at Trenzalore, and having developed an obsession with the Doctor. I don't think this is likely, however. If Missy were part of the TARDIS, I doubt if she'd call him "my boyfriend." Remember, again, that Neil Gaiman's episode featuring Idris was called "The Doctor's Wife." And even then, she called him "my thief." I suppose, of course, in her Yandere obsession, she might think he's her boyfriend, but, as I said, I'm not sure I believe this theory.

That's an interesting theory though.