Doctor Who Discussion [Spoiler Zone!]

[KabeRinnaul]

Thing that gets me is we keep going back to old ideas and acting like it's something fresh, when the old idea did it better—or else does a callback to an episode that handled a similar concept better. Or, sometimes, directly conflicts with or ignores the older episode or idea.

"Deep Breath" was just a lengthy callback to "Girl in the Fireplace", taking a generally-comedic episode with a few creepy factors and playing it totally serious (except for the Paternoster trio), but that one fell flat on it's own merits more than being overshadowed by what it referenced.

"Into the Dalek" kept reminding me of Eccleston's episode "Dalek", particularly with the "you are a good Dalek" line. But in the older episode, in addition to is just being all-around better, the line was a bitter condemnation, while here, it was a confused attempt at praise. The older one did it better.

Plus, and here's my bigger issue, what's this thing about "there are no good Daleks"? What about Dalek Sec, who decided that hatred was detrimental to the survival of the Daleks and tried to remove his race's hard-coded genetic hate? And what about Dalek Caan, who saw the entirety of the Dalek race and rejected it, then manipulated Davros into setting up their absolute destruction? I'd even say the lone Dalek from Eccleston's episode was developing a more balanced morality.

I have a feeling someone will suggest that the Doctor just forgot them, but that's a cheap excuse for ignoring continuity, plus I don't buy it in Caan's case. That whole event was too huge for him to just forget about it completely.

Anyway, Robot of Sherwood, while being one of the more enjoyable episodes this run, really pushes the whole "The Doctor is a Cynic Now" thing. And... that's kind of antithetical to most of the show's run up until this point. I don't mind a grimmer Doctor, but, well, I kind of liked that bit about "it's about the triumph of romance and intellect over brute force and cynicism". Plus... we've already done robots just two episodes ago. And this whole "promised land" thing is pretty clearly this season's arc words, but it's just too blatant in comparison to "bad wolf" and "knock four times". Moffat really doesn't do subtle, does he?

And this time... a creature that evolved to be perfect at hiding? Wow, it almost sounds like the Silence. Or the Weeping Angels. Or the Vashta Nerada. All of which are from Moffat episodes. And then the whole thing just felt forced after that. When they went back in time and met young Danny, the Doctor had a perfect opportunity to see what the things were, and adamantly refused to take it. So then he went forward to the end of time and risked all of their lives for another opportunity. And then the episode implied there was never anything there to start with.

All in all... it just keeps getting more and more frustrating to watch.

[Kheldarson]

Ummm, google it. He's a new companion. And probably also an exit strategy.

I'm on my phone ATM. Jumping back and forth between programs is frustrating.

Besides, it's not like Moffat isn't hitting us over the head with the "he's important!" bit.

[Moirae]

Ummm, google it. He's a new companion. And probably also an exit strategy.

[Kheldarson]

Does The Doctor still call people "Pudding Head" or "Pudding Brain"? I thought I remembered that from the "Robin Hood" episode or the "Listen" episode.

I think he used "Pudding Head" in Robin Hood.

Also, in the Robin Hood episode, at the end when the sheriff falls into vat-o-molten gold, are those his hands at the end, like he was trying to climb out?

Yep.

Was the sheriff actually a robot?

Heavily implied that he, like Robin, were real but lost to time.

Also, in the latest one, my wife posits that the entire premise was that The Doctor did all of that because he's afraid of the dark. He basically messed up Clara and Dan's date, and messed with Dan's head, because he's afraid of the dark.

Clara actually outright stated that. "The big bad Time Lord is afraid of the dark." Which the outright stating of all these things is what's killing the season for me.

She also believes that the color pink (as in Daniel Pink) is relevant somehow (the same with Journey Blue from the "good dalek" episode). Though it's strongly implied that Clara was related to Orson (whom at first, because of the accent, I thought was named "Awesome") in some way.

He's her great-grandson. Pretty much stated again. "Time travel...it runs in the family. One of my grandparents... Or great-grandparents..."

Danny's either getting added to the Companion roster or is Clara's exit stratagem.

[mjr]

Does The Doctor still call people "Pudding Head" or "Pudding Brain"? I thought I remembered that from the "Robin Hood" episode or the "Listen" episode.

Also, in the Robin Hood episode, at the end when the sheriff falls into vat-o-molten gold, are those his hands at the end, like he was trying to climb out?

Was the sheriff actually a robot?

Also, in the latest one, my wife posits that the entire premise was that The Doctor did all of that because he's afraid of the dark. He basically messed up Clara and Dan's date, and messed with Dan's head, because he's afraid of the dark.

She also believes that the color pink (as in Daniel Pink) is relevant somehow (the same with Journey Blue from the "good dalek" episode). Though it's strongly implied that Clara was related to Orson (whom at first, because of the accent, I thought was named "Awesome") in some way.

[JambaBamba]

I'm not thrilled with the writing but I'm really liking Capaldi as the Doctor. The episodes so far this season has felt like being teased with no happy ending...like the writing is about to be brilliant and then just totally loses steam.

[Rhion]

I'll just leave this here


(click to see full size)

[Kheldarson]

I'm going to assume you mean the third episode, and not this last one, as this last one was in fact written by Moffat.

Yeah. Meant last week's.

[Jester]

Agreed. This whole season's issues are directly on Moffat. As a note, last episode (the only one I've rather enjoyed so far) is the only one that doesn't have a Moffat writing credit.

I'm going to assume you mean the third episode, and not this last one, as this last one was in fact written by Moffat.

[Moirae]

Finally we get a real moffat episode. One that ties together the bits and pieces. This is the way its always been done. One of the reasons I never liked the Clara stories is that they were almost all "one off" episodes with nothing joining them all together. This one changed that. It's about time.

[Kheldarson]

And again, I don't think it's on Capaldi, but more in on the writers. A sports analogy: the rookie quarterback may or may not be able to play, but it's hard to tell with the coach sending in so many screwball plays.

Agreed. This whole season's issues are directly on Moffat. As a note, last episode (the only one I've rather enjoyed so far) is the only one that doesn't have a Moffat writing credit.

[Jester]

This episode had so much potential, and some truly awesome moments. But once again, as a whole, the thing seemed a bit....muddled.

Four episodes in, and while it's not horrible, I don't know any Whovian who's really happy with this new season. I can think of a season that went this deep without someone saying that okay, enough bitching, this is good.

And again, I don't think it's on Capaldi, but more in on the writers. A sports analogy: the rookie quarterback may or may not be able to play, but it's hard to tell with the coach sending in so many screwball plays.

[Kheldarson]

We're not even finished with the episode, and I'm sooo frustrated.

Edit: episode done. I'm sad. Very sad.

[Kheldarson]

The episode made me laugh, so points for that. I had to walk away when the Doctor was making an ass of himself trying to figure things out. It was much better paced, and I did love Clara in this. I just wanted to smack the Doctor. A lot. What's with the cynic mode?

[Moirae]

Ok, so this weekends episode...

I absolutely loved it. Though it still feels like I'm waiting for the episode to start (like it has for every episode with this doctor), this is the first time I've seen Clara actually do anything other than be along for the ride. She was quick witted and snappy. And the doctor... he's rather childish but its incredibly funny. It's about time we started seeing the doctors personality come through.

Not to mention, Robin Hood is one of my favorite stories of all time so I'm with Clara on this one. If there's any time period that I'd like to visit, it's this one. I'd love to meet him, especially if he's as charming as the stories say.