Human Pinata, or How to Be a "Man."

[Jester]

Sad, tragic update.............

Tiny Dancer is dead.

According to Big Boy, who was in a local restaurant this morning, last night while they were watching tv, she went into the bathroom, and when she didn't come back, he went and found her hanging.

Most people down here do not believe this for a moment, and it seems that the cops do not either. When I called the department that would deal with this, the officer told me that he could not discuss the case, could not even tell me if TD was alive or dead, but referred me to the detective in charge of the case.

In the homicide division.

He then asked me if I understood what he was telling me. Yes, I read between the lines.

The cops are apparently investigating BB for causing TD's death.

Personally, I don't care what they find out, whether she did do this by her own hand or whether he killed her and staged a suicide. As far as I and a lot of other people are concerned, this fucker caused her death no matter how it went down.

This is so sad. Predictable, certainly, but so sad. She was so close to getting away from him last month.

If you pray, say a prayer for Tiny Dancer. She is in a better place. Because no matter what you believe, getting away from that asshole is a better place.

Now, if you'll pardon me, I am going to go drink myself silly. It's either that or go downtown and kill random assholes, and I'd rather stay out of jail for the moment, thank you.

Rest in peace, darlin'. And know you were loved.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

You know, upon quite a bit of reflection about this thread, I've come to a rather ugly realization about the situation that I posted a link to earlier (woman and teenage daughter murdered by abusive boyfriend). My friend Maurice, the girl's dad and the woman's ex, is suing the LAPD, and rightly so. If two people go missing for a month and the cops can't even bother to look in the house where they are, even after several frantic tips, there's a problem. You can't leave a coupld of bodies to rot in a house for a month and do nothing. Nobody can understand why the cops were so slack. So, yeah. Lawsuit.

But looking back over all this, I understand now. They were sick and tired of hearing this stupid woman complain about her violent boyfriend. They were sick of going out to the house on domestic disputes. Cops hate domestic disputes, they are the most dangerous of all calls they have to go on. They were sick of putting themselves at risk for a woman who wouldn't leave her abuser, over and over and over. So they quit taking her seriously. They got tired of her crying "wolf."

And then when they got good and bored with her, and quit taking her seriously, the wolf came and killed her. And more tragically, killed her daughter.

The amount of horror, rage, and helplessness we all felt was so heavy to bear, so I can't believe I can now actually can see the point of view the cops probably felt while dealing with this.

I think a lot of abusers know this. If they can get someone to keep putting up with being abused, they probably know they can get away with continuing to do this. This guy that killed my friend's daughter obviously thought he could get away with murder. And he probably would have if Maurice hadn't badgered the cops for as long as he did.

So by going back to BB, TD is going to have that much more trouble if she thinks she's going to leave again. No friends, no cops. Now she really is stuck.

[DannyboyO1]

Help, anybody? Even better, insight, anybody?

Couple's counselling. You both need reassurance that you're not totally crazy, and that the other person isn't totally crazy. Just slightly

[Jester]

Jester, I just hate being the one to tell you this, even though I have an idea that you've already figured it out.

She hasn't gone back to him just to leave. She's gone back to him.

I know. Trust me, I know. If it sounded like I wasn't sure, it was more that I was trying to explain the screwiness of her logic to her, not to myself. If that makes sense. (It's early, and I am SO not a morning person!

the warning signs of an abuser

Pedersen, just because you have a few things in your personality/makeup that fits the warning signs of an abuser does not mean you are one.

In both Saydrah's list and Eireann's, there are several points that could be said to fit me, some fairly, some not so, depending upon who you ask.

That being said, I am NOT an abuser. I am not perfect, and I certainly have my flaws (oh do I ever!), but while some things on the list fit me, I am not an abuser.

I don't know that you aren't one--you may be one of the few ones that are and recognize it and are trying to change--but my guess would be that you are not. While abusers will never admit they are abusers, and will go out of their way to justify, explain, and rationalize their behavior to other people outside the relationship, they rarely worry that they might be an abuser....they KNOW what is going on, more often than not.

Obviously, from this far away, and over the internet, none of us here can make a true psychological determination about you. But the fact that you are concerned about this is a good sign, whether you are an abuser or not. As has been suggested, talk to a mental health professional, both about yourself and the lady in question.

And good luck.

[MadMike]

Wow, Mike. Says a lot about you as a father that you put up with that for so long, and nobody could blame you for being a little sour on relationships after that.

I'm glad someone understands. Other people couldn't, including someone who wanted nothing more than to find a guy to settle down with, get married, and have kids with. She couldn't seem to understand what I had been through, and why I never wanted to set myself up for that again, even if she wasn't like that.

[Saydrah]

Wow, Mike. Says a lot about you as a father that you put up with that for so long, and nobody could blame you for being a little sour on relationships after that.

[MadMike]

I am not, repeat NOT a Dear Abby fan (I'm a Dan Savage person), but she republishes at least once a year a column on the warning signs of an abuser, which I find to be very true

As some people know, I was in a relationship with someone who I describe, for lack of better words, as "evil." Looking back now, she exhibited many of these signs, particularly 2, 3, 4, 5 (didn't try to cut me off from family, just friends), 6 (definitely!), 7, 8, 11, 13, and 15.

I put up with that shit for six years. Actually, I got tired of it after three, but then my son came along, and we ended up staying together, until it got to the point where I couldn't even count on her to be around to take care of him while I was at work, and kicked her ass to the curb.

After I got free, I felt like I never wanted to get involved with anyone again.

[Saydrah]

Hehe.

Well then, if you haven't already beaten me to it, you might like this story:

http://www.talesofmu.com/story/bonus...all-about-soul

which is where I heard that.

[Rapscallion]

Magician Humphrey from Xanth.

Rapscallion, slightly OT

[MystyGlyttyr]

Mysty, I think that line was from the Tales of Mu web serial, wasn't it?

Sorry, I'll hide that fiction nerd-on, didn't realize it was showing.

I think it was the Xanth novels, actually, but I couldn't say for certain. I read more books before I was ten than most people read in their entire lifetimes. A lot of them have run together at this point.

[Saydrah]

Mysty, I think that line was from the Tales of Mu web serial, wasn't it?

Sorry, I'll hide that fiction nerd-on, didn't realize it was showing.

[MystyGlyttyr]

Help, anybody? Even better, insight, anybody?

I remember reading something in a book once..."Only creatures who have souls worry about whether or not they have them." I thought it was deep.

Now, my version of this would be: "The only people who don't worry about something are the very ones who should." The folks who never worry about whether or not their car oil is almost empty or never worry about getting a payment made on time are the ones who are STUNNED when their car breaks down or their service gets shut off for nonpayment.

Hearing about your SO's behavior, both from her actions towards you and what you mention she does to her parents, it sounds less to me like it's anything you've actively done, and more her expectations of what might happen. It sounds almost like she's experienced abuse before, and might have seen one or two of the negative behaviors from you that you admit to and drawn the conclusion that you ARE abusive, so she's assumed the behavior she's seen the submissive partner assume to survive.

You mention that she seems to like them, yet never seems to talk to them, and is very worried about their feeling negatively towards her. Now I'm not saying flat out that perhaps her parents were either emotionally or somehow otherwise abusive, but there's a fine line and they could have been toeing it several times in a way that made a deep impact on her. Maybe she had a friend who she saw up close and personal in this situation. Maybe she's just an overly meek and worrisome individual who doesn't know exactly how to act in a relationship, or isn't completely comfortable with you yet.

There's a zillion reasons for her behavior, but from what I can tell, it's not because you're abusive. You're not perfect, no, but nobody is. I think (and I'm not a psychologist, I just play one on the Internet) that this is most probably just a massive miscommunication between the two of you. It'd probably be best for you to just sit down and flat out ask her if you make her uncomfortable or what. Just lay it out blunt, ask her, listen to her answer, and go from there.

And if she stammers and doesn't seem to know how to answer, then the answer she's trying to say is "Yes" and then you have to figure out why she's so uncomfortable as to not even be able to be honest with you.

But yeah, if you had to pick out certain things on the list and sort of try to make them fit, then you're not an abuser.

[Eireann]

Adding to Saydrah's good post, I feel it VITAL to point out that even if the person doesn't show these strong signs, that doesn't mean s/he is a good person for a relationship. These control issues can start out very slowly and subtly, increasing as the controller gets the other person under control.

For example, in the initial stages, the person can talk about the "wrongs" that have been done to him/her, skillfully weaving the tale to make it seem that s/he has just the worst luck in the world, and is ever so put upon. GET OUT.

S/he "loves" his/her family completely. This is a tricky one. It could be that the person really does come from a close, loving family. It could also be that s/he knows that talking about the love of family is a great way to get a foot in the door. BE CAREFUL.

S/he doesn't laugh. This is something I've noticed with every controlling asshole I've met. They don't laugh. Either they make a sort of cawing noise that sounds like a laugh, or they just sort of exhale. However, s/he will say (about an event that s/he attended, but you didn't, for example), "I've never laughed so hard in my life." There are some people who laugh noiselessly, and I'm not including them in this warning list. You can see that they're laughing; they're just silent about it. The people to watch out for are those who don't laugh in any way; they just make a pretense of it. BE CAREFUL.

S/he doesn't cry, but talks about times when "I was bawling like a baby." You don't see him/her cry? But s/he claims to cry when upset? This is an attempt to get you to believe that s/he is sensitive. GET OUT.

One cute little trick is to speak in a low, soothing voice that sounds pleasant to the ear. This person doesn't raise his/her voice, even when upset, until you're sucked in. If you haven't seen this person raise his/her voice under any circumstances, regardless of the situation, it can often be an indicator that s/he is keeping bad temper under control for a huge blowup later. BE CAREFUL.

Drugs. Need I say more? Yes - GET OUT.

Fiscal irresponsibility. For some reason, s/he is always broke, despite working steadily. However, s/he is always buying frivolous crap. No money, but a lot of new toys? GET OUT.

S/he doesn't have any friends, or any close friends. S/he often slams those closest to him/her. GET OUT. This person doesn't know the meaning of friendship.

After spending some time with him/her, you notice that s/he is starting to criticize you. Little digs at your appearance, your job, your friends. It's usually so subtle that you don't notice it for quite some time. Noticed it? GET OUT.

S/he has problems up the ass and always bitches to you about them, but if you have a problem, you're "selfish" and "needy" for wanting to talk about it. GET OUT.

S/he doesn't show up on time whenever you make plans. GET OUT.

If you forget something, or goof up, s/he never, never, never lets you forget it. GET OUT.

You're expected to be there for this person, all the time, regardless of what is going on in your life, but this person can't be bothered to help you out, even for the smallest thing. GET OUT.

S/he always has an excuse for anything that is going wrong in his/her life - and it's always someone else's fault. GET OUT.

Another important thing to keep in mind is, in a dysfunctional relationship, the controller is just as addicted to control as the other person is to being a doormat. Hence the possessive behavior, the constant checking up on the doormat's movements, and all the rest of it. This is a person who CAN'T let go, of ANYTHING, and who MUST be in control AT ALL TIMES. It doesn't have to be an intimate relationship. It can be what passes for a friendship, it can be a working relationship, whatever. People too often think that a person who follows them, who checks up on them all the time, does it "because s/he cares". Uh, no. That is NOT what a caring person does, and it's NOT healthy. It's a lie that's given to the doormat, who believes it because s/he has relinquished power over his/her own life.

Remember, everyone, in many cases, it starts small.

[Saydrah]

Questioning behaviors that trouble you is the first step to changing it. Maybe the girl you are talking about is depressed, or has a psychiatric disability that is just starting to affect her, or is simply going through a period of withdrawal. Maybe the codependent behavior (needing your permission for things) is something that she was raised to believe women who love the men in their lives are just supposed to do. I can't tell you if any of those are true or not, but a psychiatric professional can make a good guess.

If you are worried about her withdrawal and whether your behavior may be a contributing factor, I suggest couples' counseling- or, if she won't go, just see a therapist by yourself. If you don't like the therapist, try a different one- psychology professionals are like shoes; if you keep trying them on, you'll find a good fit, but the ones that don't fit can be really painful. I come from a family full of psychologists, some of whom are internationally famous in the field, so believe me, I've met a few and some are far less psychologically healthy than their patients! However, the great ones are out there, and they really do help people.

I don't know where you live, but in most areas of the United States there are many free or low cost mental health services available, even if you do not have insurance and don't qualify for government medical assistance. A google search should do the trick (even calling a local Suicide Prevention Hotline, emphasis on LOCAL, can help- they often are happy to help with issues that do not involve suicide and are as simple as needing to find low cost mental health care) but if you need help, feel free to PM or hit me up on AIM- my name is the same on AIM and the boards.

IMHO, you are a caring person and are examining your behavior in an effort to explain a change in someone you care about. That is a good thing, but your behavior isn't necessarily the cause or a contributing factor. Some people become dependent and withdrawn when in a relationship. I can be guilty of this at times despite being poly, and have to consciously make an effort to go out with people I'm not dating, as friends, or I just won't do it. The unfortunate thing is that no matter how much you change your behavior, you can't guarantee you will change hers; it could be that she is just a person who becomes withdrawn into a relationship instead of using the relationship as a secure place that gives her the courage to go out and do more in her life than she would if she were single.

The only thing I can really tell you to do is to continue to examine your behavior and make sure that you are continuing to make her feel loved and special, and also to examine what you are REWARDING with your behavior. Do you give her special attention when she chooses to spend a night alone with you instead of with friends and family? If so, maybe she is subconsciously interpreting that as you wanting her to spend all her time with you. Offering extra support and attention when she DOES go out could be a great reward.

A really nice thing my primary partner does for me to encourage me to be social is to assure me that any time my best friend (who I see far too rarely) and I want to go enjoy ourselves, if he does not have other plans, he will watch and walk my dog so I'm not worrying about the pup while I'm out having fun. He asks about my day and about how my friends are doing- even online ones. For example, last night he asked if I had heard from Jester that day, as he knows Jester and I have been talking on AIM almost every day for a while. Things like that can help her realize that you WANT her to have a life besides the relationship, and that she will not get any less time or attention or affection from you if she has fun with her friends and family.

Long post is long, sorry.

[Pedersen]

(3) Controlling: Interrogates you intensely (especially if you’re late) about whom you talked to and where you were; insists you ask permission to go anywhere or do anything.

I don't do that. However, I have noticed a disturbing trend: She seems to feel like she needs to ask my permission to go out with friends. Yes, this bothers me. She should be able to say she's going out, and not have to worry about me.

(5) Isolation: Tries to cut you off from family and friends; accuses people who are your supporters of “causing trouble.”

I'm not trying to cut her off, and I think I'm trying to make sure she doesn't. But (for example) she didn't call her parents on Christmas. Pretty much, she doesn't call them at all, even though she seems to like them, and worries about them viewing her in a negative way.

(8) Hypersensitivity: Is easily insulted, claiming hurt feelings when he or she is really mad. Rants about the injustice of things that are just a part of life.

This I think I could be guilty of. I am way too sensitive when things don't go as planned, and I really shouldn't be. After all, life rarely goes to plan. And it's very easy to insult me, though I try to keep that under control, and explain why I felt that way should it happen.

(11) Verbal abuse: Constantly criticizes or says blatantly cruel things; degrades, curses, calls you ugly names.

I definitely try to avoid criticizing her. Try to make her feel special and loved. But I worry that I do criticize without meaning to.

(13) Sudden mood swings: From sweet to violent in minutes.

Violent? No. But my mood swings can be dramatic, from happy to angry to happy within short periods of time (sometimes over a few hours).

However, if you are already concerned, I doubt you are an abuser- if you were, you would be blaming this person, not yourself, for the retreating into the shell.

And yet, I have to ask: Am I being mentally/emotionally abusive, or manipulative, and not even realizing it? Is that what's causing this? Or am I just being overly worried about nothing at all?

Yes, I realize it might be a silly question, but reading these latest posts in this thread, and reading some of the brainwashing material that Mysty posted... I don't know. Hell, for all I know, I'm doing the same thing right now to people reading this. But I'm not actually trying to.

Help, anybody? Even better, insight, anybody?