Human Pinata, or How to Be a "Man."

[Jester]

2 am is not late for me. I am a night owl.

Just never call me early in the morning. I am, shall we say, rather unpleasant at those times.

[MMATM]

You and me both, man.

Third?-ed?

I'm going to bed, as it's 2am. But you can bet I'll be up at the ass-crack of dawn checking for updates. Jester, you're on Eastern Time! Go to bed!

...but keep your phone on and within reach.

[Talon]

Jester,

I'm sorry I'm so late arriving to this thread, on account of my exams.

I'm going to tell you all a story about a kid I once knew very well. He was small, nerdy, quiet type, therefore a prime target for bullies. He never fought back, either believing fighting violence with violence was wrong, or that he wouldn't stand much chance. One day some other kids decided they couldn't be silent witnesses any longer, and they went to the teacher. The kid was asked if he really was being bullied.

The kid wasn't exactly winning any popularity contests as it was, but he knew that no one liked a rat. On the other hand, somehow he knew that if he... if I had stayed silent, those other kids who weren't my friends, who owed me nothing, had stuck their necks out for nothing. Denying the truth would have meant I betrayed them.

That's exactly what TD has done. She's betrayed everyone who stood up for her. In my eyes, she's no longer a victim. She's chosen to destroy herself. For the time being Jester, I think it's best to leave her behind to suffer the consequences of her own actions.

That said, I don't think anyone deserves her fate. If by some miracle she pulls her head out of her self-indulgent hindquarters, help her out. But she needs to understand crystal-clear that she stopped being a victim when she betrayed her friends. Another betrayal could leave her with no friends at all, and no help in climbing out of her self-made pit.

That's all, sorry if my post was angrier than intended. I'm going to sleep now, if I can.

***While I was typing I missed the last few posts. Think TD will get the message this time?

[MadMike]

I hope he fucking dies. Slowly. Painfully. And soon.

You and me both, man.

[Jester]

And those were the exact same words that went through my head when my phone rang early this afternoon, after a lengthy text message conversation with (I had thought) TD, and I saw it was TD's phone calling me.....and I answered it to hear BB's voice. And he's trying to convince me it was an accident and he didn't hit her.

Yeah, that was a kick in the stomache.

I hope he fucking dies. Slowly. Painfully. And soon.

[MadMike]

Oh, shit.

Those were the exact words that ran thru my head when I read Jester's latest update. I hope some good news comes out of this, but I can't help being uneasy.

[MMATM]

Oh, shit.

I hope, for everyone's sake, she's ok. Well, not for BB's sake. He can rot in hell. But for her sake, for the sake of her friends, and for everyone here, I hope she's fine.

You're not on a very big island. Where could she have disappeared to? Other than BB's place, of course? And it could be that she's ashamed that she's let everyone down and is simply laying low because she doesn't want to face everyone. Even though that would mean she definitely went back to BB, it would mean that she's not entirely lost at the same time as meaning that she's ok.

Keep updating as you have been, Jester. You've got the whole board behind you. As does TD.

[Jester]

Kind of an update:

I just got off the phone with the person that TD was staying with. No one, that we know of, has heard at all from TD other than text messages. We already know that BB has her phone. I am not going to get into specifics on this forum, but various circumstances lead us to believe that this was a choice by TD, and not something that happened against her will or choice. However, we have not completely discounted that possibility. Also, while she may have gone back to him by her own choice, the fact that no one has heard from her directly makes us wonder what shape she is in. Frankly, we don't even know if she is alive, or beaten to a bloody pulp (again) or what. She is supposed to work tomorrow night. We may know more then, if only about her physical condition. Even if she is totally alright physically, though, I would not be surprised if she did not show up for work. BB knows her workplace is completely against him, top to bottom.

I don't want to worry anyone unnecessarily....we have no concrete reason to believe that anything untoward has happened to TD. But with this kind of situation, you never know.

*sigh* I'll keep y'all posted.

I hate this shit.

[Jester]

TD was a hero in my eyes.

She's failed so many people, just because she's afraid to be alone.

Right now, I gotta think she deserves him.

TD was a hero to many. And you are right, she failed many. But more than you, or me, or the CSers, or her friends or coworkers, or other women, she failed herself. And that is what makes everything so sad.

And though she made this choice, I don't believe that she deserves him. I don't think any woman in such a situation deserves such treatment. It's a freakin' shame.

I guess I just don't want to be seen as the guy who will bail on his friends when they get annoying, because I'm not.

I'm only recommending you "cut loose" to give her a taste of what her choice really comes down to.

It may be safer to avoid TD when BB might be around, or will be around, as someone with a record of violent crimes isn't usually a good bet to provoke.

As for her place of work, I'd tell her not to quit no matter how much BB pressures her, as her coworkers seemed pretty supportive from what you said before.

I don't think anyone saw you as that kind of guy....you were reacting to this situation. It's understandable.

I may not be cutting her loose, and I will be there for her....but as I said, the next time around, if she survives, who is going to go out on a limb to help her? I am not sure I will. Shoulder to cry on is one thing. Risking bodily injury to help her do something she has a history of not doing? Quite another.

I have no intention of seeking out BB, and I am guessing he is not going to try to make himself look any worse by seeking it either. The cops may roll their eyes at him beating her, since she won't walk away, but I don't doubt they would not take kindly to him getting violent with one of their favorite magicians, who has no history of violence. But I am also not going to avoid places just because he may be there. What I told him on the phone and via text I would tell him to his face. Fuck him. Beating up a 100 pound woman does not make me fear you at all.

Oh, I wouldn't want her to quit, it's a good job, and the people are very supportive....though of course they are going to be a bit less so when all this breaks. But if she doesn't listen to me about leaving him and pressing charges and going through with the restraining order, I doubt she is going to listen to my advice on her job if he convinces her otherwise.

[MMATM]

I don't think you're a heartless bastard, but you aren't in my shoes. I may not be a saint, as I have said, but I AM a nice guy, and I won't turn my back on a friend. I disagree strongly with her decision, and I feel like I am beating my head against the wall, but if everyone just up and abandons her, who will she be able to turn to if for nothing else emotional support?

<snip>

He has to know that I am not the only one that is telling TD to get the fuck away from him, but I have effectively made myself the face (or at least one of the faces) of that whole movement. I have effectively marked myself in his eyes.

Part I:
I'll have to concede that not knowing TD has impaired my judgment of her situation a bit. I was in a similar (though admittedly not as serious) situation recently with a friend (who's become quite the thundercunt as a result of the incident(s) in question) and her abusive, loud, obnoxious, literally off-his-meds, frat-boy boyfriend. I felt often that continuing to help wasn't worth it, but didn't bail, and now almost wish I had.
Helping her through many a drunk "never going back to that asshole" night, her leading on one of my best friends before harshly blowing him off for (you guessed it) said asshole, becoming more and more of a bitch to her roommate (who also happens to be my girlfriend), and now, ultimately, trying my best not to associate with her.
Will I still stick up for her? Sure. Especially to said blown-off friend, who still harbors a bit of a grudge over the whole deal. But only because she eventually made up her mind to leave the asshole (demanding, uncaring, emotionally abusive, obnoxious, and of course cheating were some of his *better* qualities) and though she went through some rough "flavor-of-the-week" times with guys, she's sort of settled down in a relationship with a better guy. Though that's only a couple months old and still not totally solid, so we shall see.
But enough with the threadjack. I guess I just don't want to be seen as the guy who will bail on his friends when they get annoying, because I'm not. In your situation maybe I wouldn't cut TD loose, but as I don't know her or have any really comparable experience I can't say for sure. I'm only recommending you "cut loose" to give her a taste of what her choice really comes down to.


Part II:
It may be safer to avoid TD when BB might be around, or will be around, as someone with a record of violent crimes isn't usually a good bet to provoke. As for her place of work, I'd tell her not to quit no matter how much BB pressures her, as her coworkers seemed pretty supportive from what you said before. However, as they're likely to disapprove of her going back to BB, they might come off as harsh to TD when they find out that she's back with him, and that might give him all the leverage he needs to force her to quit.


In summary, TD has dug herself a very deep hole in a very deep pile of shit, and will hopefully realize this soon, before it becomes too deep to dig herself out. Best of luck.

[Pedersen]

Jester, I have been reading this as often as a new post is made in this thread (well, almost). I have been rooting for TD to put this guy away, and for her to get a better life than the one with him.

TD was a hero in my eyes. Someone who actually would do what's right not just for her, but for anybody who might have come after her. She was protecting herself, and any other woman who could enter his life.

She's failed a whole bunch of people by doing this. Everybody who's been rooting for her. All the women who needed one more positive example to look to, so they could get out of such abusive relationships. Her friends. Her family. You.

She's failed so many people, just because she's afraid to be alone.

I'm disappointed and disgusted by her, almost more than I am by BB. If you ever do see her again, please tell her how much she's failed everybody else. And that I hope she is keeping the company that she holds so dear that beatings are worth it.

Right now, I gotta think she deserves him.

[Jester]

Call me a heartless bastard if you will, but I'd probably spend a while deliberately avoiding TD if I were in your shoes, Jester.

I don't think you're a heartless bastard, but you aren't in my shoes. I may not be a saint, as I have said, but I AM a nice guy, and I won't turn my back on a friend. I disagree strongly with her decision, and I feel like I am beating my head against the wall, but if everyone just up and abandons her, who will she be able to turn to if for nothing else emotional support? I can't be that heartless. It's not me. I DO understand your frustration, though. I feel it too. Something tells me, though, that BB is going to go out of his way to have TD avoid ME. After all, I pretty much told him what I thought of him when I said I look forward to "dancing over his mutilated corpse." I didn't really mince words on that one.

I forgot to ask this before, since I was (and am) royally pissed off, but weren't these two engaged before this incident? I hope they're not going ahead with the wedding...

They were. I have no idea what is going to happen, as all this is, to borrow the phrase, breaking news. And obviously I have not talked to TD much since it all blew up. As I said above, I kind of doubt BB is going to allow TD to have much contact with me after this. He has to know that I am not the only one that is telling TD to get the fuck away from him, but I have effectively made myself the face (or at least one of the faces) of that whole movement. I have effectively marked myself in his eyes.

I can't say anything else because what I would say is too harsh to post on this board.

Nothing most of us haven't thought or implied already, I'm sure.

[Kusanagi]

The only thing I can say in this situation is that it's people like TD that make the cops drag their feet on cases like this.

She not only hurt herself, but she hurt every other woman that's been in that position - one that truly wants to get out.

I can't say anything else because what I would say is too harsh to post on this board.

[MMATM]

I forgot to ask this before, since I was (and am) royally pissed off, but weren't these two engaged before this incident? I hope they're not going ahead with the wedding, because if they are TD really has no time to realize what an idiot she's being before she's essentially dead meat. In which case the score would round out to [BB: infinity, TD: zero]. If not worse.

[CaroPhoenix]

Why would I flame you? You're right! I agree. I care for her, and I hope at some point in the future she sees that, as she herself recently said to me, "she is better than this, she deserves better than this, she did nothing to deserve this." But I won't be surprised if she doesn't.

Thank you Jester for understanding. Some people might see me as being heartless. I was actually the same way with my sister and her first husband. (He mentally, emotionally and phsycially abused her and yet she waffled for a year before she finally left him because she "loved him." It took him cheating on her and stealing money from her to get her to leave). I washed my hands of her until she left the guy.

I was never physically abused by any of the guys I dated (though they mentally/emotionally abused me, and I even had one who cheated on me and blamed me for his cheating!) However, I had male friends who thought it was okay to emotionally and mentally abuse me. (And then were surprised when I walked away and stopped associating with them, even now, I will have nothing to do with them, and I get nauseous when I think about them, or see them in a public place).