Domestic Violence...long, kinda graphic.

[Jester]

Do you want your message rendered in chainsaw?

Yes, please. Preferably rusty-flavored.

[Ben_Who]

My sister's problem with her now-ex wasn't so much a victimization problem as an admitting-I-made-a-mistake problem. I don't know whether or not this is part and parcel of the whole abuse package, but to walk out on someone after a bad episode would imply that every day you DIDN'T walk out on that person after a bad episode was a mistake.

My sister was, for a while, engaged to a bright, smart, funny young man who doted on her and loved their daughter dearly. The trouble was, he had something of a short attention span and hated being employed - his dream was to own his own business, but he lacked the drive to handle all the various ramifications of that. So his business ventures would tailspin and he couldn't hold a job. Things were tight. My sister worked, but, as with all young families, their combined paychecks just didn't stretch far enough.

It was for this reason that one day while he was out at his own (temporary) job, she quietly packed up all her things and took her daughter and moved in with the man she was cheating on him with.

I was probably the only person in the family who thought that maybe this was the wrong choice to make. My parents thought the new guy was a white knight, rescuing my sister and her daughter from grinding poverty and the stigma of having their wagons hooked to a boat anchor. After all, he had a job and everything.

Turned out he exaggerated the "job" bit, as he lost it about a week after she moved in, probably because he was already taking most of his nutrition from beer at this point. With nothing to do but sit around the house in his underwear and drink, things started getting plate-smashingly nasty. It took about three weeks for the Complete Monster to rear his ugly head.

After reading one of the more terrifying E-mails, I made the offer to move her right this very second to a hotel and pay for everything out of pocket (I lived in a one-room apartment the size of a broom cupboard) and that I would personally drive up to his apartment with a pipe wrench up my coat sleeve to make sure the move went smoothly for all involved. Cue an almost immediate e-mail to the effect that ha ha, I'd been pranked and things weren't really all that bad and she couldn't believe I took her seriously, no you can't come up and visit. I forwarded the letter to my parents, who were reluctant to act on it as well, because that would be Admitting We Were Wrong and that maybe this guy wasn't the Disney Prince we thought he was.

She was lucky - she got out of there after only three months, and I have no idea how physical the altercations got. She moved in with my parents, who very reluctantly opened their doors and established a policy of We Shall Never Speak Of This Again.

But there was a weird side effect. For years afterwards, the only subject she would speak about was how lucky she was to have broken up and gotten out of there and how horrible her ex was. So was she talking about the alcoholic unemployed domestic abuser with the death threats? No, she was talking about her former fiance who loved her dearly yet couldn't hold a job. Man, was she happy to be shut of him.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that she was struggling to convince herself that leaving him for Duffman wasn't the worst mistake she'd ever made in her life.

On the other hand, when she did return to town five years later, the second ex heard about it, rang her up, and, after a few phone calls to re-establish contact and pretend that he was now a mentally-stable contributing member of society, threatened to kill himself if they didn't get back together. I believe "I'll buy the rope" would have been one of the kinder sentiments she displayed in that final conversation.

[dragon_wings]

Ah the whole 'I'll kill myself if you leave' bit.
My ex has always been mental unstable but she got worse the last few weeks I lived with her. The days she was most suicidal just happened to be the days I had off of work and was stuck in the house with her (I didn't have a bus pass then... I couldn't even afford the day pass most day). I don't know how real her suicidal threats were but I wasn't the only one that thought they were manipulations. Our roommate was her best friend and adopted brother (she ran away and his parents took her in). He was unfailingly loyal to her and she could do no wrong in his eyes. Which is too bad cause he and I could have been great friends (we has similar interests in a lot of things).

[Amina516]

I want to thank you all for sharing your stories. I know that its hard to admit things like the kind of things that have been shared here. Youre all so strong for dealing and surviving or helping and just being there for others. <3 I truly do appreciate it.

[protege]

What's that? The kids woke her up while you were cleaning the kitchen? If you had been paying attention to them and being a responsible parent, that wouldn't have happened. Why can't you do one simple fucking thing? All she was asking for was to take a nap, you know how hard she works. Why do you have to be so fucking worthless? You fucking idiot.

That sounds *exactly* like the situation at my parents' house. In fact, it was one of the reasons that I moved out. I got tired of my mother's screaming. She would flip out over anything--someone got home a few minutes too late, the car broke down, it didn't matter. After spending all day in a noisy office...the last thing I wanted to do was come home to that shit. I simply couldn't get away from it--she'd be screaming in the kitchen, I'd go upstairs to my bedroom. The noise would then follow me upstairs. If the door made so much as a creak, I'd get screamed at because "we don't slam doors in this house." 30 years of that shit was enough. I only drop by for the occasional dinner, to check the mail, or to pester my dad. If the noise starts, I leave. Hell, there was one night, I'd just pulled into the driveway...and I could hear them. I got back in the car and left. Sorry, but fuck that.

I know that my dad's not perfect either. He does (and says) some stupid things at times. However, he really does mean well. He's always been of the type that doesn't care what you do to *him,* but if you fuck with his family or anyone he cares about...he'll take your ass out. Because of his health problems and the auto accident last year, I'm more willing to cut him some slack. That doesn't mean that I don't call him a dumbass when he does something stupid

Lately though, things at their house have been getting worse. Everything, even the stuff that my brothers fuck up, is somehow my dad's fault. They don't take out the trash, he gets blamed for it. Not enough room in the driveway because my brothers can't drive for shit? His fault. Last year, he got screamed at for taking the trash out--he was told not to do that because the cancer had weakened him. So he asked my brother to do it...and he decided not to. Rather than get yelled at, dad put the trash out. Of course, my mom lost it. Yep, even though it wasn't his fault, dad got yelled at...and *nothing* was said to my brother. Did I mention that he's 32 years old and does nothing to help my parents (who are in their 60s) out around the house? That's another rant in itself...

I'm sure everyone is wondering why my parents simply don't get a divorce. They felt it was better that their kids had both parents. Thanks

[Kara]

I'm sure everyone is wondering why my parents simply don't get a divorce. They felt it was better that their kids had both parents. Thanks

That was another reason I stayed. Well, correction, that's why I didn't let her leave any of the 2,478,631 times she threatened to leave. Because it would mess up the kids. Because children need both parents, broken homes create broken children.

Yeah, fuck that. I've since learned better. We were doing far more harm to our children by keeping them in that terrible environment. She would yell at me and tear me down right in front of them. And I've seen the effects in my daughter. She's learning how to manipulate people. She learned from the master, and she knew how to play my ex and I against each other. She knew that if she said I yelled at them or "hit" them (when it was just a spank), that mommy would get mad and start yelling at me. And since mommy was always more in the mood for yelling at me, that meant that if my daughter had been in trouble for something before she deflected it onto me, it was immediately forgotten. She smiled sometimes. When I was getting ripped apart, my own daughter smiled. She's going to turn out just like that woman without me there to show her there's a better way to treat others.

[Jester]

It's stories like these that make me very happy that I had not one, not two, but three awesome parents. (Mom, Dad until he died, and Stepdad.) No, none of them were perfect, and I know that. But growing up, seeing some of my friends' parents and what my friends were going through; even as a teenager, even with the disagreements I had with my parents, even with their flaws, I knew that I had awesome parents.

I have often bitched about some of my relatives, and about my sisters to various degrees. How often have you folks seen me bitch about my parents?

Exactly.

So I feel for those who did not have my good fortune. I really do.

[zombiequeen]

This is why I love my mum-in-law so much. She's so patient and forgiving, and heck, she understands why I freak out about things. Her, along with my awesome network of aunts, uncles, and grandparents, make up for the way my parents act most of the time.
I'm one of those people who can be an emotional, manipulative bitch, but I never feel that I want to or have to with my husband. I was so scared that I would be abusive towards him, but I don't know, he keeps me from feeling bad I guess. I was used by very manipulative friends in school, so I learned to be better at it. I pull all sorts of tricks on my parents, just to keep them from calling me names. I've shifted blame for things that only I could do to other people, so my parents wouldn't freak out and hit me. Now though, I don't. Just being somewhere where I know I'm safe and loved makes me stay away from being how I was.
I don't know if that makes sense, but I'll put it out there in case it does.

[Eisa]

That's what I have to watch out for, zombiequeen...that I don't turn into an evil manipulative bitch. I do keep manipulating people now, but since it seems to be only when necessary to keep myself safe, it's like my bf won't argue with it. But I know I could do it more...I could be manipulative, I could be bitchy...I could reduce people to teary-eyed wrecks if I chose to. Obviously, I don't choose to. But it's hard when your only role models growing up were awful, awful people.

[zombiequeen]

I know how that is Eisa, and I hate it when I realize that I've hurt yet another friend because I was afraid. Of course, when it's called for, I do get some major things done, like getting my father in law to stop saying I was pregnant every time I was sick, and convincing him that my stomach problems weren't me trying to be skinny.

Amina516, I want to thank you for being there for this lady that you might not know very well, but you're at least there for her when she needs you. I'm sure I'm echoing the others here, but if I was in a bad situation, I would want someone like you to turn to.

[Seshat]

If someone on this board described your actions as being that of their SO, what would most of this board say?

They would probably pillory the person as an abuser, and advise the poster to get the fuck away from that person, as quickly as possible.

Look, the fact is that there is a difference between emotional outbursts and continued abuse. I don't know where that line is or should be drawn. I do know that the douchebag in the original post was clearing an abusive asshole. Are you abusive? It is not for me to say.

I will say that, despite what some have said here, some abusers DO change. MOST do not. But some, who do not realize that they are being abusive, as they were themselves abused, go about changing their lives once they realize what they are doing. The percentage of these folks is very, very low, but they do exist. Of course, a victim holding out hope that their tormentor will be one of these few is pretty unrealistic and unlikely to see fruition.

So, are you actually an abuser? I don't know. You might be. You might have just had some emotional outbursts. You may be on the borderline between the two. But you recognize you have an issue, and you are making attempts to address it. That is a positive, and one you need to focus on.

Look, I know it's probably not polite to say this. I know several other posters have already say, "Oh, no, you're not abusive." And maybe they are right. I don't know. But because you are part of this family of CS.com, of course people here are going to see the positive in you, and rally to your side. Just as the families of abusers do for them, often saying that the victim is exaggerating or has been abusive themselves or whatever. In the end, just as only victims can help themselves, only you can determine if you've been abusive, and if so, what you need to do to get away from that sort of mindset. Whatever happens, I wish you the best of luck, and remind you that you can always talk to me privately if you feel the need. I may be a bit of an asshole, but I won't pull any punches. (Clearly.)

Thank you for being blunt.

Looking at my behaviour then, looking at it now... I can only say I MIGHT have been abusive, but I'm not now. I'm still in therapy, for a great many reasons. Not least of which is recovering from the way my birthfamily treated (and treats!) me.

I learned to recognise when I was too angry, and get out of the same room as other people.
Then I learned to recognise when I was becoming angry, which was a major, major step forward.

Somewhere in there, I also learned that my emotions are MY responsibility: other people can't MAKE me angry, I have to allow myself to become angry.

I still get upset. I still get angry. I still get depressed and anxious and .. all sorts of other emotions.

But now, I try to figure out where the emotion is coming from (sometimes a response to the environment, sometimes my screwed up neurochemistry), and deal with it in a positive way.

I now beat a pillow against a wall, or blast zombies in a video game, or paint a violently red and orange painting, when I'm angry.

[Solumina]

I was friend with a girl in high school who dated a guy that I always got a bad vibe from. As things went on I started to notice a lot of red flags, but whenever I talked to her about it she either brushed it off or got defensive. When he started to isolate her from her friends I was one of the first that he tried to cut out, I just told her that I was sorry we weren't spending much time together but that no matter what I would always be there for her if she ever needed anything. Apparently she remembered that over a year later and called me, despite not interacting more than maybe a "hi" when we passed in the halls.

Her voice was quiet and a little shaky, at first I didn't even know who it was (after that long without talking I didn't think I needed it when I got my new phone). She said that she knew it had been a while but wanted to know if we could talk. She was scared and confused, too ashamed to let her parents know anything about it (to this day they still talk about him as the "nice guy" that she let get away), she wasn't even able to tell me much of what he did, she didn't really have anyone left to turn to but I guess part of her always knew that she was in a bad situation so somewhere in the back of her mind she held on to the fact that I said I would always be there for her.

I know that you aren't super close with this coworker but just being there and available if she does need help can make a huge difference for her. You don't have to devote a ton of time and effort into trying to "fix" her, just let her know that if/when she needs help that you are there for her.

People who have a good support structure rarely become victims of abuse, unfortunately most abusers also know this and take out that support before showing their true colors. Building supportive friendships can be a lot of work, especially if you are out of practice, offering to be there for her has the potential to be a crucial first step in her realizing that other people are willing to be there for her.

All that being said, it is very likely that she will fall back into a pattern of being abused and there isn't really much that you can do other than be there to help when she needs it.

[Amina516]

She didnt show up for work today. She called the supervisor to say she was ill, but then called back and said she was on her way in and then never showed up. Im hoping this was childcare related and not something else. :/

[Kanalah]

I'll say some prayers, Amina

[Jester]

Thank you for being blunt.

You're welcome.

Looking at my behaviour then, looking at it now... I can only say I MIGHT have been abusive...

It's always hardest for people to look at themselves as objectively as they might look at someone else. I know that my friends (and others) have often seen things in me that I have not seen in myself. And quite a few times, when these things have been pointed out to me, I've been able to go about correcting or lessening or dealing with them in some positive manner.

Somewhere in there, I also learned that my emotions are MY responsibility: other people can't MAKE me angry, I have to allow myself to become angry.

The very first step to recovery in anything is recognizing that there is a problem and what the problem is. I don't care if you're talking about substance abuse, anger management, being in an abusive relationship (on either side), being an SC, being an asshole, being a Raiders fan....oh, wait, nevermind....there is no cure for that last one.

I still get upset. I still get angry. I still get depressed and anxious and .. all sorts of other emotions.

But now, I try to figure out where the emotion is coming from (sometimes a response to the environment, sometimes my screwed up neurochemistry), and deal with it in a positive way.

I now beat a pillow against a wall, or blast zombies in a video game, or paint a violently red and orange painting, when I'm angry.

Not all anger is bad. And not all angry reactions are bad. After all, if we did not let out our anger from time to time, it would eat us up inside, and then when we did let it out, it would get really, really ugly. It's all about knowing how best to deal with it.

When I am truly and righteously pissed off about something, I will often do many hard miles on my bike, or (when I live in a town that has one, which I current don't), go to the batting cages and hit balls until my hands are sore, or go to the gym and beat the hell out of the heavy bag, or something along those lines.

Luckily for me, while I do get annoyed and irritated easily, it takes a whole hell of a lot to really piss me off or anger me. Very few people have ever seen me truly angry.