Doctor Who NEW season (contains spoilers)

[KiaKat]

So if I understand it correctly, the 8th Doctor was the one who destroyed the Daleks and, in so doing, his fellow Time Lords. Even though the 8th Doctor only ever had one television appearance, the tv movie with Paul McGann. (Yes, I've been doing my homework.)

Correct.

Has it ever been established where in the timeline of the 8th Doctor the Time War happened? Was it before or after the McGann movie? And, again correct me if I'm wrong, but we never see (on tv, not talking about audio or novels) the 8th Doctor die and regenerate into the 9th Doctor, do we?

At some point after the movie - though it's not established as to when. And no, we never see the regeneration from Eight to Nine.

Um, what prequel? I only saw the episode, and don't believe BBCA ran anything else besides that. At least, I didn't see it On Demand, and my DVR certainly didn't see it, or it would have taped it.

Only prequels I can think of are the Pond Life mini-sodes, but I don't remember anything about a mysterious hooded figure...

[Jay 2K Winger]

Um, what prequel? I only saw the episode, and don't believe BBCA ran anything else besides that. At least, I didn't see it On Demand, and my DVR certainly didn't see it, or it would have taped it.

Ah, I see the issue. Apparently, the prequel short was only released on iTunes, Zune, and Amazon Instant Video to subscribers of the series. I tend to watch Who on Zune, myself.

The prequel features the Doctor having tea in a crowded cafe when he spots a mysterious hooded figure, male voiced, but face obscured. The hooded figure tells Doctor he must find Darla Von Karlsen. The Doctor rebuffs him with a "never heard of her" and stands-- only to find himself in some darkened room. The entire meeting has been a psychic projection. The Doctor ignores a question if he recognizes the room, and tries to wake himself up, finding himself on a beach, but the hooded figure tells him he is still dreaming. The hooded figure explains that Darla needs help finding her daughter.

They float in the void of space as the hooded figure gives him the space-time coordinates (in that cool circular Gallifreyan/Time Lord writing) and tells the Doctor if he knows where the coordinates are. The Doctor plainly does, but refuses to answer. The hooded figure keeps telling him to state the name of the planet, and as the Doctor awakens in the TARDIS control room, he whispers the name: "Skaro."

[Tuxian]

Jester: No, we've never seen what prompted the Doctor's regeneration from 8 to 9. And aside from the Fox movie, 8 has never appeared on-screen again (save for the short bit in the first episode of 11's run). However, if you look at the Big Finish audio productions, and the various novels that chronicle 8's travels, there were apparently a lot of nasty things that went down while he was around. The canonicity of those, however, is still questionable.

[cinema guy]

I will attempt to construct a history of the Daleks for people.

What about the Dalek civil war between the Daleks with the human factor and those without (Evil of the Daleks). The one that the Doctor surmises is an end to the Daleks altogether?

[Tuxian]

I admit, I kinda skipped over the details of a lot of the stuff from the first three Doctors, because after the events of Genesis of the Daleks, there's a lot of room to doubt if the Daleks ever became the huge threat that was seen before, due to Davros' survival.

ETA: up until the Time War, that is.

[Jester]

Question: is the 8 to 9 regeneration the only one we never see? Also, do we know what killed 8?

And here's a question I never considered until just this moment: if Time Lords are capable of regeneration, how come all the Time Lords killed in the Time War never did? What did The Doctor do that was so devastating that destroyed them so completely that they were incapable of regeneration, yet somehow allowed him to escape? Or do we not know that yet?

Jester: No, we've never seen what prompted the Doctor's regeneration from 8 to 9. And aside from the Fox movie, 8 has never appeared on-screen again (save for the short bit in the first episode of 11's run).

Wait, what? 8 was in "The Eleventh Hour"? Where? Or are you talking about the projections of all previous 10 Doctors before 11 steps through the projections and utters my favorite Doctor line of all time?

[Jay 2K Winger]

Question: is the 8 to 9 regeneration the only one we never see? Also, do we know what killed 8?

That has never been revealed. I get the impression that Eighth regenerated very soon after he ended the Time War, and when we see Ninth save Rose from the autons in London, he's fresh off his regeneration. I think the horrors of the Time War were just too much for him to cope with and he regenerated to try to "start fresh."

And here's a question I never considered until just this moment: if Time Lords are capable of regeneration, how come all the Time Lords killed in the Time War never did? What did The Doctor do that was so devastating that destroyed them so completely that they were incapable of regeneration, yet somehow allowed him to escape? Or do we not know that yet?

Technically, they didn't all die. They're time-locked along with Gallifrey and the entirety of the Time War. Inside the time-lock, the war rages on.

Also, it's canonical that Time Lords only get 12 regenerations. As I understand it, though, they don't go past 12 because there's an increased risk of cellular degeneration.

One theory I've read is that one reason the Doctor was willing to "kill off" his race is because of the lengths they went to to fight the Daleks. Ten mentioned "the Skaro Degradations" as one of the horrors of the Time War he warned the Master about, and the theory holds that the Time Lords started regenerating past their twelfth one and started degrading, becoming worse.

I have no idea what the Nightmare Child was, or the Could've-Been King with his Army of Meanwhiles and Never-Weres, or the Horde of Travesties. (These and the Skaro Degradations were all mentioned by the Tenth Doctor to Simm's Master about the horrors that the Master never saw because he fled literally to the ends of the universe.)

Wait, what? 8 was in "The Eleventh Hour"? Where? Or are you talking about the projections of all previous 10 Doctors before 11 steps through the projections and utters my favorite Doctor line of all time?

Yep, Eighth shows up in the Atraxi's montage just before Eleventh introduces himself to the eyeball and gives them some very prudent advice.

[Kheldarson]

Also, it's canonical that Time Lords only get 12 regenerations. As I understand it, though, they don't go past 12 because there's an increased risk of cellular degeneration.

Actually, I read somewhere that it was a question of energy, not degeneration. I'm about to crash, but I'll see if I or Kabe can't dig that up later.

But I'm pretty sure it had to do with the time vortex and having enough energy for everyone to have regenerations.

[KabeRinnaul]

Actually, I read somewhere that it was a question of energy, not degeneration. I'm about to crash, but I'll see if I or Kabe can't dig that up later.

But I'm pretty sure it had to do with the time vortex and having enough energy for everyone to have regenerations.

Rassilon is the one who set the 12 bonus life limit when he originally granted the power to the Time Lords. As I recall, he himself was exempt, however. In the Big Finish Adventure "Zagreus", the theory put forth is that the limit was put in place because of cell degeneration. The 5th Doctor adventure "Mawdryn Undead" says that Time Lords have "energy packets" int heir bodies that fuel the process - one for each life.

However, in the Sarah Jane Adventures story "Death of the Doctor", Eleven claimed he could regenerate 507 times, so the rules may not apply anymore now that he's the only one left. But this is Eleven we're talking about, and he constantly reminds us that he lies.

[Jester]

I think the horrors of the Time War were just too much for him to cope with and he regenerated to try to "start fresh."

Okay, I know I'm a relative newbie to DW, but unless I've missed something, I don't think they can will themselves to regenerate--don't they have to die to regenerate?

Technically, they didn't all die. They're time-locked along with Gallifrey and the entirety of the Time War. Inside the time-lock, the war rages on.

So they're not all dead, and he's not the last of his kind? I mean, it sounds as if that the Time Lock could be unlocked in some way and the Time Lords released. Of course, the Daleks would be released, but the way you've put it, it doesn't sound like he killed them off, which is what he is constantly saying he did.

Also, it's canonical that Time Lords only get 12 regenerations.

While I am new to the show as a viewer, I did know about it when I was much younger; a friend told me about it when I was about 10 or 12 or so. And he explained the regenerations, and how they were limited to 12, and that because of the regeneration, they were able to change actors. And my question at the time was, "Well, what the heck are they going to do when the 12th actor leaves the role?

My question remains the same. If/when that happens, I am sure they will write themselves out of the corner that the earlier writers painted them into, but the explanation's gonna have to be a doozie, don't ya think?

And I think it will happen, because the show is getting bigger and bigger, and eventually Matt Smith will leave, they'll have a 12th Doctor, and when he leaves.....what?

And who would YOU want for the part of the 12th Doctor? Myself, I would love for it to be an American or some other non-British actor, or at the very least even a British actor who uses a non-British accent as The Doctor, though of course British Whovians would have a fit if that happened. (And what about The Doctor taking a female form for Twelve? It's been made clear by Eleven that Time Lords don't always keep the same gender when they regenerate.) But I'll assume Smith's successor will himself be British, and I don't know that many British actors, so I'm not sure I would be able to come up with that many candidates. Actually, no, I can't, as the two main British shows I watch are DW and Top Gear. And while Jeremy Clarkson or Richard Hammond would certainly make an amusing Doctor, I really don't think it's quite up their alley. (James May wouldn't even be amusing, just tedious. Though I do like him on TG, don't get me wrong.) And of course I've seen Torchwood, but I think the producers like to get someone new for each Doctor, so....WHO? That is the question. So, back to my original question....your choice for Twelve?

[KiaKat]

Okay, I know I'm a relative newbie to DW, but unless I've missed something, I don't think they can will themselves to regenerate--don't they have to die to regenerate?

This is somewhat unclear. IIRC, Romana willed herself into a regeneration...

So they're not all dead, and he's not the last of his kind? I mean, it sounds as if that the Time Lock could be unlocked in some way and the Time Lords released. Of course, the Daleks would be released, but the way you've put it, it doesn't sound like he killed them off, which is what he is constantly saying he did.

Did you see The End of Time? That cleared up some of the bits about what exactly happened to Gallifrey and the Time Lords (which, by the way, is a title, not a race). The Doctor did something to permanently lock all the other Time Lords away, along with the Daleks, and Gallifrey. However, because the Master escaped, and because Rassilon planted a signal in him, the Time Lords were able to break the seal and emerge back into the universe... until the Doctor and the Master were able to push them back, for the sake of saving the universe from the horrors of the Time War.

The Doctor essentially killed them. Locking them in ensured that the destruction they had begun would consume them. I don't remember the exact wording, but basically they were locked away right before they could enact their final solution.

While I am new to the show as a viewer, I did know about it when I was much younger; a friend told me about it when I was about 10 or 12 or so. And he explained the regenerations, and how they were limited to 12, and that because of the regeneration, they were able to change actors. And my question at the time was, "Well, what the heck are they going to do when the 12th actor leaves the role?

My question remains the same. If/when that happens, I am sure they will write themselves out of the corner that the earlier writers painted them into, but the explanation's gonna have to be a doozie, don't ya think?

And I think it will happen, because the show is getting bigger and bigger, and eventually Matt Smith will leave, they'll have a 12th Doctor, and when he leaves.....what?

Actually, there are thirteen. Matt Smith plays the eleventh incarnation of the doctor, having had ten regenerations. Twelve regenerations = thirteen doctors. Although, if you want to get technical, it's possible that in the Journey's End saga, that used a regeneration... in which case this WOULD be the twelfth incarnation, and he would have only one more.

Although... it's canon that they can give (or take) regenerations to each other... and River did give up her regenerations to save him... so perhaps he's gained another ten? After all the Master ended up with how many? And that's not counting the fact that the Chameleon Arch has been used, and it's not entirely clear on how much that changes the physiology of a Time Lord; does it reset them? If so, did the Master, who was supposedly at the end of his regenerations get a whole new set?

And who would YOU want for the part of the 12th Doctor? Myself, I would love for it to be an American or some other non-British actor, or at the very least even a British actor who uses a non-British accent as The Doctor, though of course British Whovians would have a fit if that happened. (And what about The Doctor taking a female form for Twelve? It's been made clear by Eleven that Time Lords don't always keep the same gender when they regenerate.) But I'll assume Smith's successor will himself be British, and I don't know that many British actors, so I'm not sure I would be able to come up with that many candidates. Actually, no, I can't, as the two main British shows I watch are DW and Top Gear. And while Jeremy Clarkson or Richard Hammond would certainly make an amusing Doctor, I really don't think it's quite up their alley. (James May wouldn't even be amusing, just tedious. Though I do like him on TG, don't get me wrong.) And of course I've seen Torchwood, but I think the producers like to get someone new for each Doctor, so....WHO? That is the question. So, back to my original question....your choice for Twelve?

It's been discussed, having a female form for the Doctor. I think it might be interesting.

If they hold true with the current trend, they'll go for someone with classical training. The last three Doctors have all had some form of classical exposure (Eccelston and Tennant were both RSC, and Smith graduated from one of the premier theatre schools in the UK), and that seems to lend something rather wonderful to the character.

Though I still have no idea who I'd cast. Probably someone completely new, someone who has been unnoticed up to now. But someone in their late 30's/early 40's. Someone with gravitas, to counter the bipolar housecat of Smith. Hm. Good question.

[Jester]

This is somewhat unclear. IIRC, Romana willed herself into a regeneration...

Not familiar with Romana. Earlier run of the show, I presume.

Did you see The End of Time?

Yes, but it's been a while. I definitely should rewatch it, and I am pretty sure it is currently available On Demand.

...the Time Lords (which, by the way, is a title, not a race).

I was under the impression it was both. After all, Time Lords have two hearts, and The Doctor often refers to them as a race, as his people, etc., etc. Or is that all Gallifreyans have two hearts, and only some are Time Lords? And if that's the case, did The Doctor kill just all the Time Lords, or all the Gallifreyans as well? He has said he killed all of his kind, and I think the word genocide's been bandied about by him or others, so not really sure....but I was under the impression that Time Lord and Gallifreyan were one in the same, and were both race (for what they are) and title (for what they do). As always, though, I reserve the right to be completely and horribly wrong.

their final solution.

Did we ever find out what that apparently horrible final solution was? Just wondering....

Actually, there are thirteen. Matt Smith plays the eleventh incarnation of the doctor, having had ten regenerations.

Point taken. And one I should have known myself, being good at math. But unfortunately, my impression was still what my childhood friend had told me, that they only get twelve incarnations, not twelve regenerations. The difference is subtle but important.

And several more good points on how he may have yet more regenerations available.

It's been discussed, having a female form for the Doctor. I think it might be interesting.

I think it would be awesome, personally. I'm all for it.

Though I still have no idea who I'd cast. Probably someone completely new, someone who has been unnoticed up to now. But someone in their late 30's/early 40's. Someone with gravitas, to counter the bipolar housecat of Smith. Hm. Good question.

I was going to counter your suggestion with the casting of David Tennant, as he couldn't have been much older than Smith when cast....and then checked my facts, and discovered that Tennant is actually less than a year younger than me. Damn, we both look damn good for our age!

[Mytical]

The final solution, iirc, was that the time lords would 'ascend' and basically take out everything and everybody ... somehow. They would be the only beings left in existence, and they would be 'energy beings'

[Kheldarson]

They were going to restart time itself, leaving only them. Possibly. Honestly, considering that the Daleks have some mastery over Time as well, it was prolly going to backfire.

All Gallifreyans have two hearts, but you have to go to be exposed to the Time Rift to become a Time Lord. There are non-Gallifreyan Time Lords.

And the Doctor locked away the whole planet. So Time Lords and Gallifreyans are both gone.

As for regenerations the Doctor might have, depending on theory of how regeneration works, plus the Master's cheating, plus Rassilon's implied precedence, Lord knows how long he could go. Especially when you throw in River's sacrifice.

[Racket_Man]

They were going to restart time itself, leaving only them. Possibly. Honestly, considering that the Daleks have some mastery over Time as well, it was prolly going to backfire.

All Gallifreyans have two hearts, but you have to go to be exposed to the Time Rift to become a Time Lord. There are non-Gallifreyan Time Lords.

And the Doctor locked away the whole planet. So Time Lords and Gallifreyans are both gone.

As for regenerations the Doctor might have, depending on theory of how regeneration works, plus the Master's cheating, plus Rassilon's implied precedence, Lord knows how long he could go. Especially when you throw in River's sacrifice.

Plus back in the old series during Collin Bakers Trial of a Time Lord whole year arc, the "judge" of the Dr.'s trial was actually the 13th regeneration of the Dr. himself (but gone slightly over the edge if memory serves correctly)

and how many times has the Master cheated the regeneration "limit". The one I remember the most is during the Keeper of Trakin story near the end of Tom Baker's series. It is stated sometime in that episode or one prior to that (the episode where the Dr. enters the Matrix on Gallefrey to battle the Master) that the Master has used up all of his "current" regenerations (though nothing is stated that the Master has somehow overcome the 12 limit at that point) and is nothing but a mutated mangled husk of a being.

If they are sticking to canon where does the Dr's 13 regeneration go off of the deep end????